h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I know that story, from living in Munich - where we used to enjoy the weekly news in Bavarian in the Sueddeutsche Zeitung. Frankly, I don't know why people think there's no beer and partying in heaven.

Here's another German take on it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4dzP7gNO6w

Words:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._4_(Mahler)

Warning: irony alert.

Best line: 'Wir führen ein englisches Leben.'
It's suppoed to mean, 'We lead an angelic life,' but, er, we could decide it meant, 'We lead an English life.'

I always liked that line from Goethe, which we wickedly translated to mean, 'When the devils want to deceive us, they speak English...'

"Pierce's point is that he's trying to hold us to a higher standard than any religion ever did"

Not really

When I was going to be confirmed our vicar asked us why the Bible tells us to do this and that and I would give answers like "to save my soul", "to ensure me a place in paradise" et cetera - and to every one of my answers my vicar said "no, no, no - you should only do it because it is the right thing to do"

"Why then", I asked, "does the Bible give the answers I gave?"

"Public relation", was his answer. "The medicine goes down better if there is a reward" (Those may not have been the exact words he used by the way )

And both he and I agree that it is okay to help people for selfish reasons - as long as they get help. (I actually wrote this somewhere else on H2G2, but I'm afraid that was so long ago that I can't be bothered to look for it and anyway what does it matter).

Final words, the vicar's last resort: "You can't expect to understand divine arrangements like "what will paradise look like" and "what will my late father look like when I die 40 years or more after he did - will he have aged or be the same" and so on and so forth

Good night - and may your gods go with you

When I was a child I thought of the 'new creation' after this one a lot. I considered this life just a test level. As for when I met God ... I was working on ideas to suggest to Him. After all ... once we had passed through this test, the sky was the limit. So I thought up new planets, new kinds of star systems, new Universes with different laws of physics. I would speak with God about these ideas and why would he have any reason to refuse me, since being all powerful he could make anything I suggested to Him without any effort whatsoever. So I thought up planets where different laws of geometry operated so they could have infinitely large surfaces; I thought of tweaking the laws of gravity to enable huge planets or weirdly-shaped ones. To me, the divine principle has always been creativity so that would be what God would want to do and we his children could share in that ... what else would 'heaven' be about? So we could make an infinity of weird planets, weird galaxies, weird universes, and then we could populate them with weird creatures. I always believed in evolution; in my view this would go on in heaven. God could populate every planet with new creatures that would evolve over time, and there was an eternity of time available so the process could go on and on and we could keep making newer and even stranger places.

And we could go and explore there or live there. I often thought that in heaven there wouldn't really be a need for laws and rules because we would all be immortal as well ... we literally could not die or suffer harm, so there could be no things like murder or crime. But I also thought that maybe for fun we could incarnate into mortal bodies or even forget what we had known so that we could experience 'new' things again.

Now, I like both of these ideas.

I like Pierce's feeling that you could safely leave these things to God. After all, let the experts do it, and don't try to teach your grandfather to suck eggs.

But I also like Willem's idea - very much. Because the kind of faith that says, 'You know, a grown-up who loves you won't get mad at you for using your imagination,' is, to me, the perfect approach to a prayer life.

Me, when I was a kid, I used to spend a lot of time telling God, 'Okay, I know you've got it all figured out. Now, what do you need me to do?'

Er, still do, really...

I don't think there's any harm in 'what-ifs' as long as we don't try to impose them on others. For example, the Pietists of Ambridge, Pennsylvania, saved up money to give to Jesus when he came back. I don't know what he was supposed to do with it, or the four clavichords they had in their reception building...but, hey, they weren't making anybody else do anything they didn't want to. And I'm sure Jesus can play the piano.

People who insist it's their way or the highway, on the other hand, need to be told no. Frequently and loudly.

"People who insist it's their way or the highway, on the other hand, need to be told no. Frequently and loudly."

It would be hard for me not to agree on this

Beliefs are one thing, though, actions are another. I can't sit idly by while adults cut bits and pieces of their childrens genitals for example because their God apparently was not clever enough to create these children perfectly (or whatever reasons they may give you). They are robbing these children of their personal freedom with these ireversible cuttings.

If the children themselves want to be circumsized let them, but not until they are mature enough to make a - well - mature decision.

It may be difficult to agree on which age in general is suitable. Maybe when you're old enough to have sex?



Ps: Douglas Adams once said something along the lines of "nothing interests an atheist more than religion". I believe he was right, but I don't know why . I guesss, though, that this is why I hijacked this thread. I shall try to restrain myself in future

No problem, Pierce.

But let's not get into the circumcision debate here, please. That could go a lot of places we don't want to end up.

Talking about heaven, on the other hand, is a pleasant enough topic.

And one thing we're probably in agreement about: it don't look like west Texas.

Unless, of course, you're a gila monster...

That's alright, I have nothing more to say about it anyway so would only be repeating myself

Let's discuss stoning instead

How come we don't practice that anymore when we still allow - oh, I'm on the track back to the C-thingy

Look, Dmitri's already told you that you're not to use the C-word here.

Being an agnostic I haven't thought much about what heaven must look like since I was a young boy. We were forced to go to church every sunday and in between the singing there was lots of time to daydream about stuff like that

My father was a strong believer but also very tolerant and lenient plus had a lot of other high qualities. It says a lot about him that seven clergymen showed up at the reception when he turned 50. The one I liked best asked me to fetch him a drink. I gave him a wine glass filled with a certain yellow coloured German Schnapps which he fell in love with instantly so he came back for a refill a few times. My mother thought it was ordinary white wine and wondered why he was so jolly

I'm sure I'll meet both this vicar and my father in heaven. Both will be wearing togas while sauntering through orange groves with Schnapps in their hands and discussing the teachings of Thomas Aquinas and other light classics

I did say I was and left the subject instantly, KB!

I like those guys with the togas. I'll bet they run into my Thomas Aquinas professor from St Louis University, a nice man from Boston who used to talk about his 'auld Irish mother'. And Fr Lawrence from North Carolina, a Benedictine monk who wanted to be carried to Valhalla by Kirstin Flagstad, was that her name? some Wagnerian soprano he liked...

I think my personal problem with the whole concept is imagining a situation where the word "Father" has purely positive connotations

I hope someone's got the wires crossed. Sitting on a cloud, I don't mind. And togas in general? Fine and dandy. But combined?

Togas and sandles would make a cold, damp, long eternity of cloud-hopping!

I learned the other day that the old Romans hated togas (maybe even more than I loathe neckties) but were forced to wear them since it was the formal wear of their time

So in heaven I will probably wear a Morrocan djellaba instead - or whatever they are almost wearing on Fiji

Hmm, probably. Togas were most likely just for wearing in senates, when arguing with Laurence Olivier about how best to deal with Tony Curtis.

I think I'd prefer wee Asterix trousers for the afterlife.

Hm, I'll be needing size Obelix