h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

That'll do for me Sho. < ok>

A few words and comments:

Ancient Brit: “I feel the time and nature of this thread is inappropriate”.
Why? When is it appropriate to discuss war and the need of military if not on this day?

Galaxy Babe: “If you read the last para, you'll see that they were pardoned in 2006. All are now remembered during the two minutes' silence.”
Little does it help the executed and their families – who were probably stigmatized for decades – now. But okay, it’s the best we can do now and I appreciate it. (To *some* degree I can understand families of fallen soldiers who could not understand the motifs of the deserters and conscientious objectors. Back then they must in many eyes only have been cowards who ran and left the dirty and dangerous w*rk to others. One must always behold stuff in context. And who are we to pass judgement? Plus as I said before, I have mixed feelings.)

Galaxy Babe: “I buy my poppy each year to raise funds for the wounded soldiers and dead soldiers' widows & families.”
Paulh: “…all the survivors deserve caring, expert medical services after they come home. I always cringe when I hear about cuts to VA hospitals, or government bureaucracies that try to deny care on some pretext.”
Can we please agree that it is a disgrace beyond belief if veterans have to rely on donations? Any nation that sends its sons and daughters off to war are strongly obliged to take care of them no matter what cost (well, almost anyway).
But of course, if you want to add a little extra by selling poppies, I wouldn’t dream of objecting to it.

PAL: “History's last living link with the battlefields of World War I has been broken with the death of 110-year-old digger Claude Choules.”
I remember him well, edited his obituary myself

Sho: “This is not about politicians, footballers or kings and queens. It's about people. Like us.”
Well said

And here are a few lines I wrote today somewhere else in another discussion about the same topic:

“In spite of family members fighting both for the Danish resistance, the German Wehrmacht, the British Army and the US Marine we only lost two, both Germans - whom their closest relatives regard as wonderful persons and were highly respected by their respective communities.”

“I put (part of) my family’s history down on paper after visiting the German war cemetery on Crete a few years ago. I found my German ex-mother-in-laws father's grave there and wanted to tell my children (his great-grandchildren) about him and the other soldiers in our family. In time I may translate it into English on h2g2.”

”Speaking of divided loyalties: My (Danish) father's brother was in England when Denmark was occupied by the Germans, so he volunteered to join the British Army. He fought at Anzio/Italy (and from there all the way to Berlin). One of the German soldiers fighting against him at Anzio later became my father-in-law. Both were great guys and had they ever met I'm sure they would have become good friends.”

My late uncle returned to England, where he married and fathered a son - my cousin – who served the British Army for decades.

My father’s sister migrated to Chicago where she married my uncle, who is still alive. He joined the US Navy and dropped depth charges on German submarines during WWII. He later became a devout Unitarian as is his two sons – my American cousins.

The other half of my family is German as is my ex-wife’s. But to my knowledge not even one of them ever joined the nazi party. In fact my mother’s father and his brother were social democrats and thus very much against ther Nazis.
Both had to fight as German soldiers, though. Deserting? It could have cost the lives of not only themselves but also family members.

you so should write that story - I'd buy the book.

I just think that in all the hoo ha, we are forgetting (I'm sure GB isn't given how active her family are in the British Leigion) that it is about people.

I didn't want to mention Nazis because I think that nobody who wasn't there at the time (unless you are a total right wing lunatic) could say for certainty that they wouldn't have found it at least expedient to join the party, because none of us was there. Well, I can say it: if it had threatened the lives of my family not to join, I would have been there in he queue waiting for the doors to open. I wouldn't be proud of it, but as a family member, especially a parent, you do what you have to do.

I know, as we all do, that not all Nazi party members were there for idealogical reasons and we will never know. Those who are still alive will hardly admit it these days, and since they (I hope) are not in a position to influence wider society we need to leave it be now.

And concentrate on the very human stories, like those of our and GB and the millions of others who, like we all do now to struggle through the recession, just try to get by and do our own small bit to make it all stop.

Our war memorial, in the village, has been cleaned up and tidied and given a bit of spit and polish (although it is always beautifully maintained) and has some beautiful wreaths that people make from the flowers and greenery from their gardens. This village has been here nearly 1,000 years and wars have come and gone but the village is still here and the people care about that kind of thing. It's repeated accross Europe and, I dare say, the world and that is as it should be.

I'm not a believer but I'll go round and pay my respects tomorrow evening after the last church service has finished.

(nothing useful to add...)

"It's about people. Like us.", said Sho.
Yes, indeed. And I had my grandfathers and all that lot fighting in WW2, some returned, some not. All people, relatives, loved ones etc. And I really don't need a calendar to honour them. As people. As soldiers, who were fighting for my freedom and were loyal to the country and... What freedom? What country? (Oh, and one changed sides.)
As about those, who died in war and were buried with no name and maybe with no-one to remember them. I grew up in a country where there was "unknown soldier" behind every corner.
Those guys who go to active service from here go mostly for 2 reasons: they love war or for the need of money. The first one I don't like and the second one... gives me very mixed feelings. It shouldn't be like that.

but it was and the German people couldn't stop it.

Oh, I meant those guys who go to war today. For money.

Then you do them no justice.

Hati, may I tell my reason ... while very brief?

I did join our military because of a need of income and a trade. I signed on for 5 years, and at 17 years of age, thought it simple. But over time, I began to see the world picture so much clearer by the TV news and newspapers. Not just the view of my country and politicians of the day, but the very big picture. And so I added on, and served 21 years.

My intent and wish was to never use the weapons that I was trained with against another soul, but I always knew that it might be needed. My name was in the hat for the next round of people during the first Gulf War, but thankfully it was brought to a quick conclusion before I was required.

But had I boarded a Hercules to join in, I would have done so. Knowing that I had given my life and my word to my country, my people and (oddly enough) my Queen. I had no illusions, I would go to do what the government felt that I must do. The government which was put in place by the majority of the people who cared enough to vote

And there is the final stitch in a weird weave. Many despise and hate war as much or more than I do. And yet they will not speak their piece when it comes to a national vote. So when it comes time that men and women are directed to offer their lives, it is given by the consent of those who care enough to vote.

Those who do not vote, may cast stones from a far hill. But they have no right to spit or smite any actions done by the elected government.

There, my two-pence

Oh, I probably didn't myself clear - here they have to volunteer to go to war zone. Joining the army is whole other thing, not to mention the recruits.
A guy from a village not so far from here was recently sent home in a tin coffin. There's 2 little girls without father, who went to war just to be able to build them a new home. A war with no reason, somewhere on the other side of the planet or so. He could as well go to Norway and work there as a carpenter for couple years. I fail to understand it all.

<>

Most of us, in many countries now, we don the uniform to serve as our elected leaders decide that we should.

The people choose the leadership, the leadership that chooses the causes or battles.

The mathematics are simple.

there's a reason behind every war though. Whether we agree with it or not.

And whether we agree or not, there is a school of thought that says we can enjoy our pacifist lives here by merit of that war there.

It's a mess. I don't agree with the war's we're involved with at the moment (not that I agreed in any of the previous wars) ut the fact is that they are there, and young people (and some not so young) are over there doing their thing.

We remember those closest to us on other days too, but there is a very powerful feeling of togetherness (especially by those recently, and not so recently bereved) when we all come together on one day and remember.

Probably that's my problem: I don't want to "come together".

That feeling is palpable during the two minutes' silence.

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but who is asking you to, Hati?

Nobody, I just expressed my opinion in Pierce's journal. Anything wrong with that?

I have no problem with your opinion, Hati. You come from a very different country history than I do, and so we will very possibly never see this topic the same way. More days than not, I wish that I could see the world from your perspective.

One thing I like the most about hootoo is diversity. I wouldn't know how people think of feel in other parts of . And I am happy with people having different opinions. There's no right or wrong opinion. There are different opinions. That's what diversity is made of.

The week of remembrance ends tomorrow if you have access to the BBC.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b017j7j0/Remembrance_Week_Series_2_12_11_2011/