h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Started conversation (ID Cards-What's the problem ?) as an experiment.
Found diversions hard to follow. Lost touch with who's talking to who.
Realised that threads can be followed by using the Link - "This is a reply to this Posting". Unfortunately everyone does not use the correct 'Reply' button. My own lack of understanding has contributed to the confusion. No doubt there is a guide for conversations I must find it and read it.

Just entered 'conversations' in Search Box.
Found this http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A308224

Trying 'expert' user mode to try and find out how the 'Tree Gadget' helps to follow a conversation and keep a line on threads.

Getting the hang of it. Although my attempts to create new subject headings (threads) may have invoked the moderated posting 182 in ID Cards - What's the problem ?
If the posting to which you are replying is not the last in the conversation then you must click on the reply button for the specific posting. Still not sure about the 'Tree Gadget'

Experimental Conversation 'ID Cards - Whats the problem ? Folded up
------------------------------------------------------------------
I never did like telephone conversations except with friends.
Only needed for messages and emergencies.
To converse you need to eyeball
Conversations on h2g2 fall into this category.
h2g2 Conversationalists do not follow the simple rules.
Difficult to know who's talking to who.
Too much time spent writing not enough reading and understanding
Wait for web cams and true online discussion.
Ok if you want a one to one.
Better done via Personal Space ???

Hi, AB.

I thought I'd take you up on the ofer of discusion about the tree gadget and other stuff about the discussion forums on h2g2. Since this journal entry is called Conversations, I thought 'd use that as a starting point.

I will try to give you some insight in how most people I know on here work when it comes to posting in the conversation threads, and how it can seem to be confusing at first.

The first thing I'd advise you to do is to not care about what the rules say (except for the no spitting rule, cause that's serious). As you found out in the ID card discussion (most threads are discussions, rather than conversations) most people do not click on the reply button for the post they intend to reply to, but instead read through the entire backlog of the discussion before replying to the last post, and then replying to all posts that have been submitted since they last posted they feel inclined to reply to.

The basic thing to remember, to try to keep up with things, is to make sure that you adress the person you are replying to when replying to their post. Therefore, you can reply to many people in one single post, instead of making two, three or even more short replies that will just end up one after the other at the end of the forum anyways.

The tree structure I was talking about in that discussion is when you go to Expert Mode in the Forum layouts. That structure is based more on what you wish people would do, as it gives you the layout of the thread in which you see what post is in reply to what post. We used to have that as a standard on h2g2 about two years ago, but they then changed it to where you now have the continuous thread with 20 posts per page, which many people find is a lot easier to use since you can always find the last replies to any posts compared to the tree structure where posts could get lost and you'd have a rough time keeping up with the discussion because of that.

So, to summarise what I've just said, I'd advise you to go with the flow of things, and not critizise people for the way they've gone about their business for months, or even years.
Also, the 'Rules' are not as much rules as they are guide-lines.
When replying to a post, no matter if you're using the reply button in the post you're replying to or the last post of the thread, please start the message with some way of telling who you're addressing that you're talking to them (like I did at the start of this thread, even though you are the only one I can reply to in this thread).

If you feel like discussing this any more, or if you want to hear the points of a guy that's been on h2g2 for about 3 years, please let me know.

/Lost

Thanks Lost -
Your tolerance and friendly advice is very much appreciated. You will gather that I am not too thrilled with conversion as a means of communication in the realm of h2g2. My posting ' ID Cards - What's the problem ? ' created it's own problems and must be considered a failure as far as conversations go, but it did succeed in its experimental purpose in that I have made contact with you and several others during it's course.
Perhaps my experience in this regard is similar to that of most Oldies trying to live in a media in which they find themselves as Newbies. However I shall persevere and if I open my big mouth again my first reference point will be <./>F93527?thread=197562?thread=5#p2244373</.>.
You yourself admit to being a Lurcher. After looking around a bit I think I must put myself in that category. I have had Lurching sites recommended to me and my next step will be to Lurch into them. I'm sure I shall get more out of this way of life in h2g2 than trying to open a conversation.
Having had the experience I don't know why anyone would choose to try opening a serious conversation on h2g2. I think they should be 'Fun Only'. I much prefer this more leisurely approach via your personal space.
I've had a quick look at yours by the way and intend to go back and delve (or is it Lurch) a little more.
I'll be back.
Thanks again

PS: I'm quite chuffed really because I managed to put a direct link to you posting .

Hi again, AB.

I think that the point you made about there not being a chance to get serious conversations or discussions going on h2g2 is a bit incorrect. Granted, there are alot of conversations/discussions where the topic drift is irreversible, but there are also alot of conversations where people stick to the topic for long periods of times, and have good points to put across.

One of the better ways to find serious conversations is to do a search for a subject you're interested in, and then see what they've got to offer there.

ANother good place to look for good discussion threads is the Info-page which you'll find at http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/classic/info where the last updated threads are shown.

Thanks again Lost
I'll do as you suggest (I shall Lurch, doubt if I shall join in except where fun is the main objective/subject). I've have my fill of serious ' online ' conversations.(On Line being the operative word) Far too spontanious for me, my old fingers and mental reactions are just not up to it.

Actually Post 182 in "ID Cards..." was moderated because it said:

>> The police ARE racist. I can attest to that.
Also, having worked for various branches of the Civil Service, I have to agree that they are institutionally incompetent, racist, homophobic and sexist. <<

and the moderator on duty at the time jumped in reflexively, without noticing it was a quote from an earlier post. It was reinstated pretty quickly once the mod had read and understood it.
Moderated postings are, more often than not.

Thanks Tefkat
With the mood of the conversation at the time. I thought it was an abusive remark aimed at me.

To SPAT ( SuePlusArt and Tefkat)
If you ever get here.
TBOFIGBWTSG - This Boring Old Fart Is Getting Bored With This Silly Game.

You should have gone back and read it.
I always go back and read the moderated postings after they've been reinstated, but then again I'm a cat. And mostly female to boot .
Maybe human males aren't quite as curious?

AB dear, if you're bored with a convo you just don't read it.

Would you believe that I am interested in how conversations are handled in h2g2.
It's the way that some hikers handle them that I'm not too fond of.
I've gone over to a new address for BOFesses. Feel free to have a look it's nearer to home.
F61414?thread=185463&skip=&show=#p2260008
I picked up quite a bit playing around with SPAT
Ta very much ..

This is a Link to Conversations in My Message Centre opened up by Teasswill (Bless her )
F93219?thread=201607?thread=&post=2272456#p2272456

This is a Link to my Trial Conversation that caused problems but taught me a great deal about h2g2 <./>F19585?thread=194089&skip=0&show=20</.>

I've looked in on some of your conversations, etc. and think I can help out here.

I think the main problem is that you have a different model in
mind when you think of conversations here. You are thinking of
one-on-one conversations, or at least small group conversations
where people take turns and follow the subject. The reality is that
conversations here more resemble a party model, where people
drift in and out of conversations and there may be multiple
conversations going on at the same time in the same room, which everyone can hear. We (h2g2 veterans)
view things as happening sequentially in the order of the posts,
not in some multi-threaded independant heirarchy. That's why
we all hit the reply button on the last post. One can reply to what
someone said last night, but you are replying NOW, thus you put your reply right after whatever the last person said. In other words, we view the conversations as happening linearly in time, so the threading is useless.

What that means, is that you have to keep track of the various sub-conversations going on. And, you can reply to multiple sub-conversations in a single post - after all, you are in a big room and everyone is listening while you have the floor.

I guess that's one way to view it. Everyone in a particular conversation is in a big room (and others can come into the room at any time). When someone posts to the conversation, it is the equivalent of standing up in the room and saying your piece while everyone politely listens. You sit down (hit the "post" button), and some time later someone else stands up and says (posts) their piece. Now, when you stand up, you may be commenting on something someone else said yesterday, but everyone in the room has long memories and can simply look back in their memories (the conversation backlog) and remember what you are referring to, provided you give them some clue - i.e. preface your remarks with something to orient the listeners (e.g. "Regarding what you were saying about penguins, Bob, I want to say...").

Hope this helps.

One further point. The conversation guidelines that you quote regarding replying to a particular post, are just that - guidelines. They are how the originators of the site thought things might work. The users have found that things work better the way I have described above, and pretty much universally follow that convention. In the end, it doesn't really matter - the site is a fun place to come and converse and the people here are very friendly and tolerant. Any advice you have been given has been given with a friendly, helpful intent, in the same way that they would tell you if you had mustard on your mustache, which...ahem...er...you might want to check a mirror.

Thanks Garius
I can see and understand the analogy that you have made and appreciate the trouble that you have taken make it. I can now live with this situation . However as a Newbie I find it just as easy to follow the guide lines and press the reply button of the post that I am replying to. What annoys me and still does is that in a busy online conversation with everyone talking at once, a point that you wish to make just gets buried and because everyone is so busy making their own point you have no way of knowing who is talking to who and confusion reigns. If you are unfortunate enough to make your point near to a multiple of 20 posting it goes off the page in a flash. I have yet to find a posting where anyone goes back a page to make a reply. If they did then they must surely press what I call 'the right button'.
You say 'after all, you are in a big room and everyone is listening while you have the floor'. I am afraid that ,in my limited experience, they do not listen and that is where you analogy breaks down. As I see it you are in a big room and everyone is talking at once and it is more than likely that no one is listening.
I can have no interest whatsoever in that kind of free for all. Except for fun. I am finding one to one conversations where I am quite happy.
Sorry Garious but on this point I can not accept that the Guide Lines can be considered as a BBC Restriction. To the contrary they do no more than 'Let Nation Speak Peace Onto Nation'
Thanks again for you considered view.

AB, the trick to replying to a conversation, as Garuis pointed out, is to read the backlog, from where you last posted up until the last post, and then replying. Yes, there are instances where people simulposts (posts at the same time) but usually, people go back to the thread after posting and update it once more before leaving it, and therefore are able to pick up on any newly posted replies.
As Garius also said, since most use this method, there are times where people can become a bit 'snappy' if someone posts something that has already been said, without reading the whole backlog. It is considered the same way as if you were in Garius' room environment and someone took what you said and repeated it five minutes later as if it were something no one had said before.
If you're in a thread where there are many people talking/posting at the same time, then I'd suggest you try the link where you go to your own last post, to be able to read all the posts that has been posted since.

That way, you won't miss any posts, even if they are posted just before the 20-post page break.