h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Seriously: -

If we are not to lust, then why did God grant us the ability to do so? Is it a social experiment to see if we can resist temptation?

Jeff,

What you have forgotten is that there is NO lust in God, and NO lust in Heaven. You are feeling the lust in yourself and then you are attempting to stick it on the Lord, when it is the product of SIN in you.

The Law is there to show you that lust is wrong, by His standard, by simple commandment, and secondly to reveal to you, in your own self, that lust is there, see Rom.7:7- end.

The Law reveals sin, and communicates to you that you cannot keep His commandment; that you are congenitally incapable of earning His approval, and showing you that you need someone to help you. His name is Jesus Christ.

Justin

Okay, but my question was really: God created man, right? So why then create man as fallable? It's not an attempt to stick it on God, I'm asking a rational question. If God created man, then he created everything about man too, am I right? So he created, or at least did not rule out, lust in man. To me, it's a logical step to take. It's things like this which prevent me from reconciling myself with the notion of the existence of a God. God says not to sin, but he created everything, ergo he created sin. Is that right?

Jeff,

He created man in His image, and that means he had to have free will and the ability to choose. Otherwise he would have been a robot.

No, that is not right. Man was created perfect, and free from sin. At the Fall sin entered into man; he was not like that in the beginning. Lust was not in man at the beginning.

Sin came in courtesy of Satan, not of God.

Justin

Excellent.

Okay, I think I'm still following this...

Who, or what, is Satan, and from where did he appear? I heard from a friend of mine who professes to know everything, that Satan had previously been an angel at God's hand, but that he fell and started his own party.

Me? I have nooooo idea.

Hi Justin .

You have just reminded me of a rhyme I once learnt in the back row of Sunday School:

God made the Devil, and the Devil made sin,
And God made a cubbyhole to put the Devil in.
The Devil got sore, and said he wouldn't stay,
But God said he had to as he couldn't get away.

Let's start this argument again shall we?

Assumptions:
1. Your God is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniescent.
2. He created everything upon earth and in the heavens in six days.
3. Alone amongst his creations he gave man free will.

Deductions:
1. God created the angel Lucifer.
2. The angel Lucifer rebelled against God and fell from God's grace, becoming the Devil - Satan.
3. The Devil made sin and spread his evil across the world and into the hearts of men (initially through the serpent in the garden).
4. Man can only be saved from sin by coming to God through Jesus.

Problems:
1. Nowhere in the holy scriptures does it say that God gave any of his choirs of angels free will. They are the obedient servants of God.
2. Thus Lucifer must have been instructed by God in all that he subsequently did, including the infecting of man with sin.
3. As no man can free himself from sin, except through the intercession of Jesus, which they cannot seek until God authors faith in them, then man's free will is but an illusion.....

You have always avoided answering this paradox beore, perhaps you will oblige me this time? However, if all you intend to do is rant at me how it is not my place to question a minister of God, and besides as an unsaved person, and an Apostate to boot, I am not capable of understanding the answer, save your breath. I will simply take it that you are unable to explain the truth and are either:
1. Wrong, or
2. A very poor preacher indeed.

Blessings,
Matholwch the Apostate /|\.

Thank you Math, that's obviously how I meant to pose it

As a general working rule among adults - if you ask a question and someone says that question isn't allowed (of them) then they have no answer to give. Justin is at least consistent in this refusal. ALL the answers that might be useful to us are "not for our ears." Including the answer to the question "Why are they not for our ears?"


Noggin

*ahem*

Do people blatently ignore that me (a Satanist) is subscribed to these threads, or do you all enjoy the Satan bashing?

In answer to the above question, Satan is the demonised form of a few figures (eg : Pan, and Prometheus being the easiest to explain). There are numerous stories attached to him...the basic accepted form is that he is the Archangel that assembled an army to try and usurp God. But God, the infallible and almighty, kicked his a**e and sent him down to Hell. In return, Satan gave humanity knowledge and truth (like Prometheus did in Greek legends). However, there is another story, where Satan and his demons are mercenaries sent down to earth to report mortal crimes back to God. However, they found humanity irresistible, and copulated with them; thus producing the Nephilim (there are Bible quotes for that as well). God caught them out, and sent them down to Hell as punishment. But the story of the Fall is present in nearly every cultural society. What is unique about Christianity, is that it has a singular figure to blame all evil on. Prometheus for example (who relates to the real meaning of "Lucifer" - light bringer) was not punished for being evil; simply for betraying the Gods.

It all depends on which way you look at the stories...

How does that contribute? Good enough? Everyone going to stop using Satan as a bad entity now? No. Thought not.

Hi Saturnine

I hope you did not think that I was demonising your belief? If you did...

As you can plainly see I am couching my question to Justin in terms of the statements he makes. To couch it in any other way would allow him to deflect his answer away from the very serious question that I am asking him.

He believes that Satan is the Great Deceiver and thus, as a Satanist, you are his enemy. He also believes that I, Alji, Noggin, Hooloovoo and even poor Jordan are unwitting Satanists! I am challenging this belief. I hope you don't mind .

Blessings,
Matholwch the Apostate /|\.

OK Justin, in this conversation you refer to God creating man in his image.
I'm putting you on the spot now, and asking, why haven't you attempted to answer the question I put to you about Adam and Eve, and from where their son Cain got a wife?
I was disappoited you didn't reply to the unanswerable question.
I suspect you even unsubscribed to it!
You can still find it in my space though! Please try an answer, I am most interested.

MoonGirl

I thought I'd throw in a thought, just to muddy the waters!!

Having read a few things about Genesis and the Creation (the Bible, the Apocraphia, etc.) the way I've always read the creation of Adam and Eve is this: The whole story is a generalised account of the formation of the everything - it would be since ancient man didn't have the knowledge or the means to find out (scientifically) about the origins of the universe. Adam and Eve are, I believe, words meaning "Man" and "Woman" and are not about two individual people but about the human race as a whole. So I guess Cain's wife can be explained that way. It's sounds a bit weak when condensced into a few words - sorry.

Also, there seems to have been two separate occasions when the angels were cast out of heaven. The first occasion was when the Watchers grew lustful over the "daughters of man" and came from heaven to have intercourse with them - the offspring were the Giants, etc. The second occasion was when Lucifer grew jealous of man when God placed his new creation (Humans) above the angels and the angels were supposed to worship man as well as god. This, understandably, upset Lucifer and co. That's when the civil war in heaven started and Lucifer was cast out. It's more complicated than that, of course, but that's the gist of it. It's all contained in the Apocraphia - although difficult to read as are many religious texts, clouded as they are in metaphor and stuff.

Jeff,

In essence what you have been told is right. Satan once was an angel of light, a high and exalted angel, called 'Lucifer'. He was perfect as all the angels, but he rebelled against God, he thought to usurp the throne of God, and was kicked out for his insurrection, with all the angels who followed him.

Justin

Noggin,

Not quite. As an outsider and congenital enemy of God, like all human beings, the internal workings of the church and the things of God are not for your ears.

The answer as to why they are not for your ears is simple, and I am happy to tell you; God ordained it, Mt.7:6.

The things which are for outsider's ears are things such as the Law of God which applies to you. The Cross of Christ. The mercy of God for all who repentently come to Him WHEN HE DRAWS THEM, death, Hell, Judgement Day, eternal destruction, and eternal life as an alternative.

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What you just said about things of the church and of God not being for our ears - I thought you were opposed to organised religion? The church is at least a building used for worship and at best a name having become synonymous with Christianity - an organised religion.

Just wondered...

Jeff,

You are reading what I put up, filtering it through your own ideas, and coming to all sorts of conclusions which I did not mean.

When I am talking about 'church' I mean the Biblical church, all those who are filled with the Holy Spirit, and KNOW the Lord Jesus Himself. I do NOT mean what you see, though in some of those churches there are members of THE Church.

The church is NOT a building, or anything to do with it, as I am sure you know. No Christian would particularly mind if you bulldozed all that which you think is a 'church' into a heap on top of the Vatican and burned the lot.

The word 'church' is used in Scripture, Almighty God means something completely different by the word than what churchmen take it to mean. They generally do know that no building is, in the eyes of God, a 'church', and will agree that THE Church is the people of God who are born again of the Spirit of God into the kingdom of God, but then they carry on being religious and using it in the Catholic religion's way, referring to a building as such. But that is their problem. I will not be answering to God for what they do.

So to speak of 'church' does not imply that I mean a building, or that I am approving of deviant and apostate establishment religion, which is just the world at religion, at all.

Moon girl,

Very simple, and obvious to plain reading of the Word of God. The wife was his sister, or possibly neice, if I remember rightly (?).

When the genetic pattern was so pure in the beginning that was possible, it was only much later when the Law of God was introduced that that was illegal, as it is today.

Now, a question for you, why are you joining the trolls in trying to find something by which you can wickedly ignore Almighty God? Why do you spit on the sacrifice that Jesus made of Himself for you to buy you eternal life, and seek only to call God a liar by not believing Him?

Justin

Thanks Jeff for at least making an attempt at an answer, you are only the second one I have asked who has done so.
Guys, according to the Bible, Cain went unto the land of Nod, East of Eden, and got unto himself a wife.
Does this mean he dreamt of her?
Another difficult one for you. If Charles Darwin was correct, Then Adam
and Eve must have been apes!
Any theories on this?

I pesonally believe that man, and all other creatures evolved from amoeba.

Luna.