h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

In these days of Perverse Claptrap (commonly and eumphemistically called 'political correctness') the tyranny of 'tolerance' is everywhere. On the face of things tolerance sounds like a good idea, but it does not work in practice how it seems in theory.

You will notice that, in practice, it is actually a very clever form of intolerance.

It is not done for a man to say that a woman should not have a job, and a man should, as that is 'sexist', but you won't find a more intolerant bunch of twisted and nasty people than feminists.

It is not done to say that Christ is the ONLY way to God, but God does, "Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life, NO MAN cometh to the Father but by ME."

If Almighty God is utterly intolerant of all sorts of evil then why is it that Christians are vilified for standing for the truth? (I know the answer to this myself, of course). If one stands up in this once, ostensibly 'Christian', land says that all pagans must repent, just as Jesus did, they are vilified. Hence, what most call 'tolerance' is actually 'intolerance', as it only tolerates the evil that Christians hate, (as does God.)

However, God has told His people to tell the pagans, feminists, etc, that they must repent. God is utterly intolerant of sin. There is NO sin in Heaven, as, if it got in there, it would not be Heaven much longer, but be like this foul cesspit of a world in no time at all.

God has said that all unrepentant sinners will go for the burning, unfortunately, and He is going to be rid of those who, on His Earth, will not do as He wishes.

Is not, therefore, this penchant for intolerant 'tolerance' actually a work of Satan, as it denies that God has the only right way, on His Earth, amongst His creation?

"you won't find a more intolerant bunch of twisted and nasty people than feminists."

Umm... I can think of one.

H.

Yeah, me for a start

I don't ask that God (or any other mythical creature) be tolerant - only that those who claim to follow hir are tolerant. "Judge not lest ye be judged", and all that.

Lucinda,

I would say you are very wise not to ask a 'mythical creature' to be tolerant, but all Christians know the God they worship; the Maker and Owner of Heaven and Earth, and us. He is not tolerant, even if deviant and apostate religion which claims to be His is.

Uh hu. And what happened to 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'?

KerrAvon,

I am not sure what you mean by that, but that Scripture is one of the most abused ones in the Bible. When Jesus spoke that He was speaking to the unsaved religious who had taken on themselves to be judge, jury, and executioner of some women 'taken in adultery'. Notice that they had not produced the man involved.

To point out sin and wickedness is not wrong, as one has to do that when preaching the gospel, before one offers people Christ. You will find many instances in Scripture where the Lord's people are being ticked off in forthright language for allowing sin in the midst. It it were not possible to expose sin then church discipline would be impossible and we would end up like the Church of England!

God hates sin, and so do His people, BUT no one who is unsaved can cease from sin anyway.

"no one who is unsaved can cease from sin anyway"

So why don't you just stop wittering on about it then? We've established over the course of many conversations that:

(a) the unsaved can't stop sinning
(b) the unsaved will remain that way until they're saved
(c) nothing they do will get them saved, no matter how good they are because
(d) it's entirely down to God's capricious whims who gets saved.

So: those of us who are going to be saved don't need to hear your wittering because we're going to be saved, and those of us who are not going to be saved don't need to hear it because there's nothing we can do either way in any case.

So you're completely redundant, Justin/God. See you around.

H.

Well, Hoovooloo/devil, Almighty God can do as He chooses with His what He owns, can He not. It is nothing to do with capriciousness, that is very much an element of your master's behaviour.

Grasp of your native language and failure to bother to check a dictionary letting you down again, eh, Justin/God?

Capricious: adj: "subject to whims; unpredictable"

Whether you like it or not, the description YOU have given of your/God's way of choosing people to save matches precisely the dictionary definition of the word "capricious".

So, it has everything to do with capriciousness - assuming you are speaking English.

Are you speaking English?

H.

Well, Hoovooloo/devil, I am sorry that you don't know this, but God CANNOT act outside His own nature. He is utterly predictable, as He, and His ways, are revealed in His Word. It is very much your master who is capricious, as he has no set pattern to work to, and does things on a whim; whatever he feels necessary to do to get at God, as he knows his time is short.

However, those who are saved/going to be saved are "chosen from before the foundation of the world." God's is working out His plan, and all is going according to it. I hardly call that 'capriciousness'

Is this pot and kettle nonsense still going on?

"Well, Hoovooloo/devil"

I do like that, do please keep it up!

"I am sorry that you don't know this"

No need to apologise, Justin/God. Oh, hang on, on second thoughts, since you are God, you should apologise if I don't know something, because it's YOUR fault, as is everything else. Silly me.

"but God CANNOT act outside His own nature."

Interesting that you should say that. You seem to be constraining the abilities of God. Fascinating.

Also: you have stated ad nauseam that *I* cannot act outside my own nature as a sinner - yet you condemn me for it, often in the same breath. Why?

"He is utterly predictable"

Excellent. Then predict, please:

1. Will you/God save me? No messing about, a simple yes or no will suffice.
2. When, precisely - a date and time please - will God make judgement day. If he is utterly predictable, as you say, you should be able to supply me with a specific date without any problem at all. Eclipses of the sun are utterly predictable - I can tell you when the next one visible from the UK will be TO THE SECOND. Please, demonstrate a similar degree of knowledge.

"It is very much your master who is capricious, as he has no set pattern to work to, and does things on a whim; whatever he feels necessary to do to get at God, as he knows his time is short."

And yet you say everything he does is according to your/God's plan in any case, so where is the room for his caprice, or even free will???

"However, those who are saved/going to be saved are "chosen from before the foundation of the world." God's is working out His plan, and all is going according to it. I hardly call that 'capriciousness'"

I agree entirely. I call *that* building a clockwork deterministic universe with no concept of free will and responsibility.

You have a real problem with responsibility, don't you, Justin/God? I'm extremely glad you didn't stay in the police force, because a person with your defects in such a position would be dangerous indeed.

This is an extremely interesting pronouncement, really. Not only is pointless attempting to become "saved" - the decision about whether I'm going to be saved was made before the universe was made! What point my existence, then? I'm just a clockwork toy, built for the amusement of a sadistic creator. He decided to burn me before he even made me. OR, possibly, decided to save me. I have no way of knowing which, and I have to say - why would I care? There's NOTHING I can do about it. So, according to your system of morals, Justin/God, I can do anything I like - lie, steal, commit adultery, rape, torture and kill - all with impunity, because:

(a) it isn't my fault, as I've no choice but to sin
(b) it doesn't MATTER, because if I'm going to be saved my sins have been paid for by Jesus, and
(c) it's entirely possible that I'm not going to be saved, in which case I might as well have as much fun raping and pillaging as possible now because it's the lake of fire for me after I die.

Have I got that right?

Oh - and unsurprisingly, you seem to have missed the very simple question: ARE YOU SPEAKING ENGLISH??

H.

Jack,

Not sure what you mean, old chap. I post some things on my space, and a bunch of trolls, usually the same three (first time you have been here, hello!) and attack it using all their master's techniques which are well known to me, and a bit boring really.

Justin

Hoovooloo/devil,

Glad you like it. It is the Scriptural truth, as is 'Justin/God'. "Christ in us, the hope of glory." When someone is saved from sin and death they are spiritually united with God, something which you have never experienced. He lives in them by His Holy Spirit, and they live in Him by the same method. They are fused into Him, and are being conformed to His image by a process called 'sanctification', which goes on through a believer's life. It is true of ALL Christians, other than nominals.

So, to call me 'Justin/God' is not too far from the truth, but it is a bit boring and unnecessary, as it is like saying 'Justin/man', it is just a statement of fact.

I have no idea whether God is going to draw you to Jesus. "Jesus said, no man can come to me unless my Father draw him." That is God's work, through His people, usually, and, as you will not listen to what one of His people is telling you, I am sure He is not speaking to you at the moment.

Your master is allowed a certain amount of room for his caprice.

You cannot but sin, and have done more than enough to bring judgement on you already, everyone has.

It is not right that you can go off and do these things, as you would be restricted in how far you could go by God, but, within limits, you are a free agent.

Salvation is NOT from Hell, but from sin and death. If God is working on and in you to bring you to Jesus you will not do as you say.

I did not answer your question as I thought you were just being childish, however..... I do suprisingly speak English, as it is my first language, but I am not very good at it really, and would like to be much better.

Justin,

Hello yourself. Er yes, sorry about that, wrong thread, wrong time of the day, wrong planet, that kind of thing. To avoid confusion, I've modded myself, just in case so to speak.

Anyway, I did agree with you that PC can be a clever form of intolerance, but things sort of tailed off after that. Still that's up to you. One of my best friends became a born-again Christian a few years back and we argued it all out then - we just ended up reinforcing eachother's opinions, but we're still mates.

OK, I'll just trundle off then

What is this place fantastical place called Heaven? I've looked extremely hard and can't really pin it down.

In much the same way that you confuse serpent, Satan and devil (all of which stems from a single verse written by an absolute raving nutter) you confuse a word which means sky, as in the phrase "the heavens opened" (i.e. it rained), with some mystical place that is ONLY directly referred to in the Gospel of Matthew as the "Kingdom of Heaven".

Since Matthew was written after Paul's letters and is almost certainly based on those letters and the Gospel of Mark, one can't help wondering where the idea actually came from.

Moses and Jesus apparently preached very little about how people should live their lives. The sum total of their preachings breaks down to just 12 commandments (two of which are almost exactly the same).

In following those commandments, any religious person of any religion, would do great service to both themselves and others. These commandments are not hard to understand, but they are a difficult ideal to live up to.

I respectfully suggest Justin, that since you have admitted breaking most of these commandments at some point in your life, that instead of attempting to inspire fear and establish control over your fellows that you re-evaluate your position in life and try to address your own transgressions.

You have sinned. What have you done about it?

If you believe that confessing your sins to Jesus and accepting his salvation now makes you any different to a serial murderer receiving absolution on his death bed then I think that you are sadly mistaken. Can you not see that you have chosen exactly the same route to salvation?

What you preach is worse than Catholicism.

Jack,

There are a few of us around, and until God be pleased to show you via your mate you won't be able to see it,and you will tend to reinforce each other's opinion.

Cheers,Justin

Madent,

Whilst I understand that as a blind enemy of God you do not understand the things of God, and are determined that God's claims on your life will touch you, I am surprised that anyone could come to such an utter travesty of understanding you have.

For you the 'ideals' you speak of are not just difficult to live up to, but utterly impossible.

Any transgressions that I have mentioned were BEFORE I was saved, and were dealt with at new birth, in just the same way as they are in all Christians, (other than nominals).

I think your concept of death bed confessions is a very Catholic one, but does not exist in God's mind. Death bed salvation is very, very, rare, for various spiritual reasons. I have not taken any 'route to salvation', I have been SAVED by someone else's will.

Now, what about your sin before God. Mine is all dealt with, and yours can be too. You can be clean on the inside, forgiven, and given a new nature which does not go automatically against God. Would you like to be rid of sin and death? Jesus offers you new life. Will you take it?

"I am surprised that anyone could come to such an utter travesty of understanding you have."

A travesty? To keep the commandments is a travesty?

"For you the 'ideals' you speak of are not just difficult to live up to, but utterly impossible."

The "ideal" I speak of is not utterly impossible. Let me paraphrase the commandments as I read them, stripped bare of their setting and applied to real life.

1. Be true to your god/gods/beliefs.
2. Recognise that your god/gods/beliefs do not lie in symbols of faith.
3. Don't misuse your god/gods/beliefs to justify your own faults.
4. Make time for your god/gods/beliefs.
5. Respect your parents.
6. Don't kill.
7. Don't break trust.
8. Don't steal.
9. Don't lie.
10. Don't let jealousy get the better of you.

11. Love yourself and believe in yourself.
12. Love others as you love yourself.

Thank you, Justin, I hadn't read through them for some time. I just realised that the first commandment of Jesus had an alternative meaning. It complements the first commandment of Moses and is not a repetition at all.

"I think your concept of death bed confessions is a very Catholic one"

Justin, I raised the concept to demonstrate the similarity between your self-professed salvation and absolution. The only difference between the two is that your salvation is self-administered, after all you are one with God.

"Now, what about your sin before God. Mine is all dealt with, and yours can be too."

I am aware of my own limitations and I am prepared to answer for my faults. Whereas you appear to favour running from your faults, yet feel free to point them out in others.

Strange isn't it?