h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

At times like those which now exist in the world, many think of their own mortality. It is a well known fact that there are no atheists in foxholes, and no brave boasters against God when death is imminent. However, there is a coming Judgement Day, there will come a time when Jesus Christ comes to deal with this world, and the evil that so many love to protest about will be dealt with.

There is something to this which very few take any notice of; when Jesus returns to deal with evil He will deal with all evil, everywhere, and everyone in whom it is found.

So many love to point a finger at Saddam Hussein, the pope, Muslim terrorists, Robert Mugabe, etc, but they forget that Jesus is not coming to deal with things according to their understanding of what is right and what is not, but according to His own standard, which is holiness. When He comes to sort out those whom many consider to extremely wicked, He will also sort out those who accuse the seriously wicked that we see in the world today.

God gave His Son's life to save men from sin. God has paid Himself, in His own Son's blood so that men can be delivered from sin and not be condemned with the seriously wicked. It does not matter how bad the outworking of sin is in someone's life, the issue is SIN, the root of it in man.

All human beings are infected at conception with sin, it taints all they do, even the ostensible good. Just because someone is not a psycopath does not mean they will not be condemned. The outworking of sin in you may be just the telling of 'little white lies', but lying is just as bad as paedophilia, feminism and murder in the eyes of God.

"Seek the Lord while He may be FOUND, call upon Him while He is near."

As entertaining as usual...

"At times like those which now exist in the world, many think of their own mortality."

Does anyone ever NOT? Death and taxes, life's two certainties...

"It is a well known fact that there are no atheists in foxholes"

That's not a fact, Justin, that's a common saying with *some* basis in fact, admittedly.

"and no brave boasters against God when death is imminent."

Actually, real world statistics show that the word most commonly uttered in imminent death situations (namely airplane crashes, where it's possible to hear the very very last words said by people in the full knowledge that they are definitely about to die) by English speakers is not "God", or "Jesus", or any kind of prayer - but rather the simple word "shit". Eloquent, simple, and while not being a brave boast against God, doesn't actually mention him either.

I don't expect you to explain this, Justin, I'm just pointing out that you are, as so often, factually inaccurate.

"So many love to point a finger at Saddam Hussein"

Ooh, close the knuckle, you know you're not allowed to talk about that...

"the pope"

Actually I think that's just YOU who likes to point the finger at him.

"Muslim terrorists"

Um... why just Muslim terrorists? Why not just "terrorists"? Prejudiced, are you?

"Robert Mugabe"

Interesting you should mention him. You don't mention George Bush, though.

Question: (ABSOLUTELY SERIOUS question, no ulterior motive): Is George W. Bush saved? You tell us, Justin, that you can divine by spiritual means whether someone is saved or not, even if you haven't met them. I'm seriously interested whether Dubya is a *real* Christian like yourself, or if he's just a particularly odious "nominal" as you call them. Please answer this even if you ignore the rest of this post, I'm honestly very, very interested to know.

"God gave His Son's life to save men from sin. God has paid Himself, in His own Son's blood so that men can be delivered from sin and not be condemned with the seriously wicked."

I'm still confused about this. Why all the blood and pain and stuff? Why not just save everyone? He's GOD, right? Why not just make sin not have existed?

Ultimately, I suppose I'm asking:

What is the POINT of sin? Why did God create it? And having created it, if he hates it so much, why not simply uncreate it? That is within his power, is it not?

There are a couple of serious questions here, please answer them Justin.

Thanks...

H.

Hoovooloo,

God did not create sin as you very well know, and have been told ad nauseum. Your master, whom you serve in sin every day of your life, as I once did, brought in sin. God gave His Son's life to save people from sin. When those who will be saved from sin and death are saved He IS going to destroy every vestige of it, and all it infects.

"God did not create sin as you very well know, and have been told ad nauseum. Your master, whom you serve in sin every day of your life, as I once did, brought in sin."

From where?

I'm sorry, but I admit I really must have drastically misunderstood something here, but you appear to be implying that Satan has the power of Creation! That there are things in the universe NOT created by God! This goes against everything I thought I knew about what you believe.

That wasn't the question I was really interested in however. Could you please answer: Is George W. Bush a saved Christian, or just another vocal "nominal"?

.

Hoovooloo,

I did not say that Satan created anything. He was one of the higher angels in Heaven and was created with free will. He decided on rebellion against God,and was thrown out for his efforts, with his followers. He decided on deception to get control of creation, as he could not get control of Heaven, and the first humans submitted to him, and sin was introduced immediately.

Sin= wickedness, lawlessness, etc, anything contrary to the rule of God, and disobedience to Him.

I have not met George Bush, and don't know anyone who has. I have not exchanged correspondance with him either, so I could not comment.

All that stuff about Satan is pretty interesting, but where can I read about it in the Bible?

Blatherskite,

What would you want to do that for? You don't believe the Word of God, and it would only be a waste of time for you, and worse; it would only upset you.

Forgive me, Justin, but I'm really quite confused here.

"All human beings are infected at conception with sin"

Now, I can understand the latter, if sin is some sort of "infection", something intangible perhaps but a FORCE for evil, which would need to have been created by God, or someone else with the power of creation. But you also say:

"Sin= wickedness, lawlessness, etc, anything contrary to the rule of God, and disobedience to Him".

The problem I have with this is that I fail to see how it is possible for a single fused cell of protoplasm which is a newly conceived human foetus to be "lawless", or indeed "wicked". Surely lawlessness and wickedness are the OUTWORKINGS of sin? And surely such outworkings absolutely require a body? The unrecognisable and barely visible clump of cells which is a foetus in its first few weeks is simply not physically equipped to be lawless or wicked, or indeed to outwork sin in any way as it has no free will, having no brain.

I'm sure you can resolve this apparent contradiction, with your superior knowledge of spiritual things to my own. So please:

Is sin simply "lawlessness, wickedness and disobeying God", in which case how is it possible for a foetus with no limbs, brain or differentiated organs to commit it?

Or is sin a spiritual infection which taints humans from the moment of conception, in which case who created this infection?

Thank you.

H.

Oh, and re: George Bush, I thought you could tell if someone was saved by spiritual means? This definitely does not require you to have met someone, (since you were able to divine that Madent is not saved, by what you called spiritual means). Do "spiritual means" require you to have had some correspondence with someone? And if so, why? Isn't more like simply interrogating God to ask whether a specific person is on the list?

Honestly curious how this method of telling whether someone is saved actually works.

H.

Hoovooloo,

Your problem lies in that you have no knowledge of anything spiritual at all. You see things as purely biochemical and physical, and you trying to understand spiritual things with intellect - again.

Sin is a spiritual 'infection', a spiritual principle in someone NOT the commission or concioius desire to commit wrong. It has its outworking in sins; wrongdoings. People sin because they are sinners; servants of/children of the devil. New birth removes that nature and replaces it with that of a child of God, then the person has to learn to walk in that, making mistakes as they do so, and grow in it.

Now, LISTEN, whether or not a child is as yet a small group of cells PHYSICALLY they are there SPIRITUALLY, and the sin principle is there, WHETEHR OR NOT THERE IS ANY OUTWORKING OF IT. SIN is the issue NOT the outworking primarily, though there is outworking, as you see in your own life, that you are utterly unable to live in line with the Law of God, which you must do if you are to be saved. You CANNOT do so in an unsaved state.

Almighty God did NOT create an evil force. I appreciate that you are still desperately seeking to get some black on God so that you feel you can ignore Him and deny Him away, but you are playing a dangerous and stupid game. Your life is in His hands and when He says it is over it will be. And there is nothing you can do about it. Your next heartbeat you owe Him, none of us are ever more than a split second from death. You are utterly and hopelessly dependant on Him, so it would be wise not to provoke Him, would it not?

I told you what happened, and how Satan became what he is, and I am not going to repeat myself.

Hoovooloo,

As a godless heathen and enemy of God, you are trying to teach someone who knows God, and walks with Him, again, I see.

I can tell, as all Christians can, who is and who is not saved. BUT I did NOT infer that I could do so without ever having any contact with them.

The mechanism of how Christians know each other is beyond your comprehension as you do not have the spiritual understanding to touch these things, and they are not for your ears anyway.

"Your problem lies in that you have no knowledge of anything spiritual at all. You see things as purely biochemical and physical, and you trying to understand spiritual things with intellect - again."

Justin - you KNOW I'm not saved (even though you've never met me...). You KNOW I don't have the tools you have to understand these things. The only tool I have to understand what you say - until God choose to save me - is intellect. I cannot change that. Only God can change that, by choosing to save me. If you have a problem with that, I suggest you take it up with God, because you've told me enough times that there's nothing I can do about it.

Please stop telling me that my intellect is useless. God gave it to me, apparently, for some reason. I intend to use it until he chooses to offer me something better.

"Sin is a spiritual 'infection', a spiritual principle in someone NOT the commission or concioius desire to commit wrong."

This is exactly what I thought it was. All I fail to understand is - who created the infection? Who created this spiritual principle? It exists, therefore it must needs have been created. By whom?

I'm not trying to trick you. I'm trying to understand. I understand that some of "your things" are "not for my ears", but SIN is one of the things you say IS for my ears. So tell me about it, please.

"It has its outworking in sins; wrongdoings. People sin because they are sinners; servants of/children of the devil."

Fine. This is simple to understand, even with mere intellect.

"New birth removes that nature and replaces it with that of a child of God, then the person has to learn to walk in that, making mistakes as they do so, and grow in it."

OK.

"Now, LISTEN,"

I'm all ears...

"whether or not a child is as yet a small group of cells PHYSICALLY they are there SPIRITUALLY, and the sin principle is there, WHETEHR OR NOT THERE IS ANY OUTWORKING OF IT."

I understand this. There is some spiritual principle, some force or presence, which is part of the non-physical part of a human from the moment of conception. This is what I have thought sin was all along, thanks to your previous explanations. The only problem I have with this is that YOU YOURSELF (above) said that "Sin = lawlessness, wickedness etc.", which seems to make clear that sin is an ACTIVITY. I'm sure you can see how this would cause misunderstanding if you remember that the people you're talking to must use only intellect to process your words. Remember your audience is not gifted as you are with spiritual insight. Do try not to confuse us unduly.

You also said that God did not create sin, but Satan didn't either. So who did? It's a spiritual principle, it exists, it must at some point have been created, just like everything else which exists (except God?).

"SIN is the issue NOT the outworking primarily"

I understand that part perfectly, thank you.

"though there is outworking, as you see in your own life, that you are utterly unable to live in line with the Law of God, which you must do if you are to be saved. You CANNOT do so in an unsaved state."

I understand this. Though there be no outworking, as in my own life, sin is still present, until I be saved. I seek only to understand who created sin in the first place, and why. NOT the sin in me - sin as a principle.

"Almighty God did NOT create an evil force."

But yet this essentially evil principle exists. And it exists despite, not because, of free will.

I've often heard Christians (or at least nominals) explain the problem of evil by saying that God creates us innocent and free of sin, but that he also gives us free will, and we sin because we are able and we are weak, or whatever. This makes some small degree of sense to me.

You, by contrast, tell me that God creates us filled with sin, and that even if we exercise the free will God gave us, resist temptation, have faith and do good works only, unless he choose to save us it avails us nothing in his eyes as we are still filled with this evil which he did not create. I seek only to know who did create it and why.

"I appreciate that you are still desperately seeking to get some black on God so that you feel you can ignore Him and deny Him away"

Not at all. You say god did not create sin, I believe you. Why would you lie?

So who did? And why? What is the point of it?

"You are utterly and hopelessly dependant on Him, so it would be wise not to provoke Him, would it not?"

I'm not provoking him, Justin. I've not chosen to address him or deal with him in any way. If he can be "provoked" by a few simple questions, then he is immature indeed. I don't believe he can be. I think the only one who is "provoked" here is you, because you are having trouble answering my questions.

These are the things for my ears. I'm asking you to tell me about them. I'm not asking you to reveal any of your secrets, merely to explain to one you know cannot understand spiritual things what sin is, who created it and why it exists, and to explain in a way my wretched intellect can handle. This is surely your responsibility as a preacher - to tell the unsaved about sin? If I don't truly understand what trouble I'm in, how do you expect me to even want to avoid it?

"I told you what happened, and how Satan became what he is, and I am not going to repeat myself."

Justin, I have a memory of such encyclopedic breadth and accuracy that you can only dream of. Rest assured, you will never NEED to repeat yourself. However, if I ask a question and it goes unanswered, I may repeat it. If you find yourself repeating your non-answers, I can't help that. If you answer my questions, you will find I will not repeat them. It's that easy.

"As a godless heathen and enemy of God, you are trying to teach someone who knows God, and walks with Him, again, I see."

Erm... why do you think I'm trying to teach you something Justin? I've ASKED you something. I've observed that you claim certain abilities - you tell me I'm unsaved, though you have never met me. You state how many saved people there are in the UK, though you have not even met all the saved, much less all the ones you "know" are not saved. You clearly have awesome abilities to tell whether people you have never met are saved or not. I merely asked if a certain person was or was not saved. If you are unable to tell, that's fine. I was only mildly curious in any case.

"I can tell, as all Christians can, who is and who is not saved. BUT I did NOT infer that I could do so without ever having any contact with them."

You repeatedly state the fact that 99% of British people are not saved. You've not met them. Therefore you can tell whether someone is saved without ever having had contact with them - or you have no idea how many saved people there are in Britain and that figure of 1% real Christians is just something you made up. Which is it?

Note: I'm not trying to teach you anything, or trick you. I just would like to know what you mean by what you say, that's all.

(point of pedantry, also: if you say something, you may IMPLY. If I hear it, I may INFER. You do not say something and INFER anything. Inference is something your listener does, implication is something you do. End of pedantic aside.)

"The mechanism of how Christians know each other is beyond your comprehension as you do not have the spiritual understanding to touch these things, and they are not for your ears anyway."

This is fine. I'm not asking how you do it, although it would be interesting to know. I mainly want to know whether ONE particular very, very famous person, who you must surely have heard speaking on the news and perhaps even seen in the newspapers or even on television news, is saved. If you can make a determination about me based solely on sterile words on a screen, is it not easier to tell if you can see and hear the person? If you say not, I believe you. As I say, I don't wish to probe the mechanism, I merely wished to know the answer about one particular person.

It's interesting that you DO know that Tony Blair is unsaved, but you do not know about George W. Bush. Can you try to find out? I think it's important.

H.

Hoovooloo,

You are trying to apply worldly carnal thinking to non-worldly things, you cannot do that. Spiritual things are not solid, and are not detectable by non-spiritual means. Sin is a spiritual infection which did not need to be created, it is not a solid thing like a virus is. I cannot explain it to you, as you cannot understand. In your unsaved state you don't need to know either.

It is not necessary that anyone know the ins and outs of what sin is for them to be saved, or to understand their need to be saved. The fact that you have sinned against God, and if you are honest you will admit that, shows that you have the principle of sin in you.

"The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ....."

As I have told you before, all your sin is paid for, at Calvary, by Jesus. You, and all humanity, is so bad that the only thing which can be done is put the natural man to death and replace his nature, which is done spiritually in new birth, and is a fait accomplis already accomplished by Jesus, at Calvary. He is the only one who could pay the price of sin: death, and rise again from the dead. Either we admit that we are sinners and seek Jesus HIMSELF,with all our hearts, to be delivered of what we are, or pay the price for sin ourselves, with no hope of surviving it.

I have explained already, but you are as deaf as post. God created Satan as an angel of light, and archangel. He was created with FREE WILL, and he chose to rebel, he tried to usurp the throne of God. On being thrown out of Heaven he came to ruin God's creation and set up his kingdom here, in opposition to God. He tempted Eve and through her Adam was tempted, and committed the high treason of submitting to Satan, becoming his slave and losing his innocence. The devil nature entered into mankind at that point.

Now, is that clear? You do not need to understand the mechanics of how it works to understand that it is in you and you are in dire trouble until you find Jesus Christ Himself.

I did not say God creates us filled with sin. That is blasphemy, and I don't want to hear it, thank you.

It is not my job as a preacher to tell people about sin. I am told to preach the Word of God of how to find deliverance from sin in Christ Himself. Your understanding is shockingly bad.

The issue is that you ARE infected with sin and you ARE a helpless slave to sin, like all humanity is, BUT you can be delivered from the power of sin in Christ. Now if you will not stop debating what God says, as I have delivered it to you, and wish to desperately seek to find fault with God, or me, in order that you can feel comfortable in your sin, then there is nothing more I can say to you. You had just as well go off and enjoy this world while you can, as you are not going to enjoy what is coming soon. If you are aware of your own wickedness and evil then there is hope, you will seek out Christ with all your heart, and you will find Him, and you will be delivered, and be free from your current master. But please don't spend hours trying to catch me out, you won't do so, God is on my side.

I am not sure why you think it important to see whether George Bush is saved or not, why are you interested? I don't have the means or the time to find out. I am not his master, or his judge, and neither are you. I have never heard the man speak other thant the odd announcement, I have never seen anything written by him,and I have no idea what his policies are. It is nothing to do with me, or you. To his own master he will stand or fall, if he is saved. What is the point of finding out if he is saved, when you are heading for the burning? What comfort could it be that someone else is saved, and in poitics, and you are not?

I have seen what Mr Blair has written, and said, and I know what his policies are.

"You are trying to apply worldly carnal thinking to non-worldly things, you cannot do that."

I can do nothing else, as well you know. Why do you continue judging me for something over which you know I have no control? Would you condemn me for having two eyes?

"Spiritual things are not solid, and are not detectable by non-spiritual means. Sin is a spiritual infection which did not need to be created"

Are there any other things in the universe which exist but which were not created? I assume God is one of those things, he must not have been created.

I can't think of anything else. Can you?

"it is not a solid thing like a virus is."

Oh, I understand that. Sin is no more a solid object than is a soul. But did not God create my soul?

"I cannot explain it to you, as you cannot understand. In your unsaved state you don't need to know either."

I accept your judgement.

"It is not necessary that anyone know the ins and outs of what sin is for them to be saved, or to understand their need to be saved."

Please do not presume to tell me what I need to know in order to understand something.

If I do not understand something, I seek more information. If I am told I do not need the information, I must conclude that I do not need to understand. If I am to understand, I *DO* need to know these things. I cannot change that, and neither can you.

"The fact that you have sinned against God, and if you are honest you will admit that, shows that you have the principle of sin in you."

I have not sinned against god. However, I accept your contention that I have the principle of sin in me, despite having not outworked it by means of lying, adultery, theft, etc. as you did.

"I have explained already, but you are as deaf as post."

I am not deaf, Justin, and if I were that would be a deeply nasty and insensitive thing to have said.

Your "explanations" explain little. I must struggle for every morsel of usable informaion from you.

All the while you condemn and insult me for relying on intellect, all the while knowing that I lack your gift of spiritual knowledge.

You are gloating over my inability to understand spiritual things, knowing that there is NOTHING I can do about it. Why do you keep doing that? If I could understand those things, I would. I can't, as you keep telling me, so please, stop gloating.

"God created Satan as an angel of light, and archangel."

Is this in Genesis?

"He was created with FREE WILL, and he chose to rebel, he tried to usurp the throne of God. On being thrown out of Heaven he came to ruin God's creation and set up his kingdom here, in opposition to God."

Is this in Genesis?

"He tempted Eve and through her Adam was tempted, and committed the high treason of submitting to Satan, becoming his slave and losing his innocence. The devil nature entered into mankind at that point."

Ah, I KNOW that bit is in Genesis. Did I miss the other stuff?

"Now, is that clear? You do not need to understand the mechanics of how it works to understand that it is in you and you are in dire trouble until you find Jesus Christ Himself."

Well, that's fine. However, the phrase "until you find Jesus" implies I have some say in when it happens, that by my actions I can be saved. Yet my actions can only turn me into a nominal Christian, unless god chooses me. So I'll wait for him to choose me first, and then I won't waste any time pretending to be a Christian like all the nominals you dislike so much.

"I did not say God creates us filled with sin. That is blasphemy, and I don't want to hear it, thank you."

Um... does or does not God create us?

And are or are we not infected with sin from that moment?

Sorry, I do seem to be missing something here again.

"It is not my job as a preacher to tell people about sin. I am told to preach the Word of God of how to find deliverance from sin in Christ Himself. Your understanding is shockingly bad."

I suggest you blame yourself. I'm doing my best here to drag information out of you, but what comes out is garbled, inconsistent, evasive and apparently impossible to understand unless I have a gift YOU have, but which you know very well I do not. You seem to be being intentionally cryptic.

"The issue is that you ARE infected with sin and you ARE a helpless slave to sin, like all humanity is, BUT you can be delivered from the power of sin in Christ."

OK.

"Now if you will not stop debating what God says, as I have delivered it to you, and wish to desperately seek to find fault with God, or me, in order that you can feel comfortable in your sin, then there is nothing more I can say to you."

I'm not debating anything God says, since I have heard nothing God says. I'm not debating anything you say, partly because I don't want to, but also because I can't START debating you until I understand what it is you are saying.

I'm trying, with a degree of patience I did not know I possessed, to get you to explain yourself more clearly. I have no interest in debating you. I just want to know what it is you are saying, exactly and clearly. I have no wish to even attempt to persuade you otherwise, I am NOT trying to affect your faith - I have to say, in some respects I admire your singlemindedness - and I'm not trying to find fault in what you say.

I am trying to ELIMINATE fault in my understanding of what you say. OK?

"You had just as well go off and enjoy this world while you can, as you are not going to enjoy what is coming soon."

Define "soon".

"If you are aware of your own wickedness and evil then there is hope, you will seek out Christ with all your heart, and you will find Him, and you will be delivered, and be free from your current master."

Sin is a spiritual thing. I'm unaware of spiritual things, by definition, as you are so fond of reminding me. Why would I seek out Christ on your say-so, simply because of something you tell me is in me but of which I have no awareness? (NOT a trick question)

"But please don't spend hours trying to catch me out, you won't do so, God is on my side."

I'm not trying to catch you out. See above.

"I am not sure why you think it important to see whether George Bush is saved or not, why are you interested?"

That is not for your ears.

"I don't have the means or the time to find out."

I thought you could tell? With anyone?

"I am not his master, or his judge, and neither are you."

No, I'm not. I'm just curious. (You, it seems, *are* my judge, since you judge me unworthy to hear things "not for my ears", even though you've never met me...)

"I have never heard the man speak other thant the odd announcement"

He's made quite a few odd announcements!

"I have never seen anything written by him,and I have no idea what his policies are. It is nothing to do with me, or you."

If you think the inner life of the most powerful man on the planet has nothing to do with us, Justin, you must really not care how you live or when you die.

"To his own master he will stand or fall, if he is saved. What is the point of finding out if he is saved, when you are heading for the burning?"

How do you know I'm heading for the burning? Are you my judge? How can you know I shall not be saved before that time come? Do you know the future? I thought Deuteronomy had dire warnings about necromancy and divination....

"What comfort could it be that someone else is saved, and in poitics, and you are not?"

I do not seek comfort, I seek understanding. I wish to know if you consider Bush a man like yourself.

"I have seen what Mr Blair has written, and said, and I know what his policies are"

And you do not consider him a man like yourself. Fine. OK.

H.

Hoovooloo,

I have given you more than adequate explanation of the things you post here, in another long post. I don't think explaning it any more is going to make any difference. You have been told, but you won't listen. You twist what I say to make it mean what I did not. You won't believe God's Word, and you won't believe His servants, and, until you are prepared to humble yourself, and cease from questioning what God says, you will not be saved, and see the things that all Christians can see, and know. I leave you to your way

"I have given you more than adequate explanation of the things you post here, in another long post."

You have not. I shall be the judge of whether your explanation is adequate. So far, it is not.

"I don't think explaning it any more is going to make any difference."

If you do not believe yourself capable of explaining, that's fine.

"You have been told, but you won't listen."

That is a lie. I listen. I query what I do not understand, and what you do not adequately explain. If I did not listen, I could not question.

"You twist what I say to make it mean what I did not."

Another lie. I ask you to confirm what you mean. If my understanding is at fault, I invite you to correct it. You refuse. Fine.

"You won't believe God's Word"

That is a lie.

I shall believe God's Word the very second I hear it from Him.

"and you won't believe His servants"

I cannot tell his servants from the lowest sodomite spawn of Satan. Which are you? I don't know. Nor can I be expected to know until he saves me - so spare me the lecture.

" and, until you are prepared to humble yourself, and cease from questioning what God says"

I have never, ever questioned anything God says. I have never, ever heard anything God says.

I question what YOU say. You, as I have had to tell you again and again, are NOT GOD. Please stop making these statements which imply you consider your words and God's words to be the same thing.

"you will not be saved, and see the things that all Christians can see, and know."

Are you my judge? I shall be saved if and when it pleases God, and that is not for you to say - unless you think you are god...

"I leave you to your way"

And fail, once again, to communicate. Some preacher.

H.

Hoovooloo,

I have given you the Word of God, as His servant that is what I am called to do, and you just brush it off as something I am saying, as if I were separate from God, and that I am telling you something God would not say. I would not dare tell you anything which did not accord with Him. I know Him, remember.

There is no 'sodomite spawn of Satan', so I don't know what you are talking about. The only thing you need to know is whether or not what I am saying agrees with the Bible. Now, as a Bible student of some years standing, with a Bible college degree, I hope you will realise, I know very well what Scripture says.

I have quoted you Scripture, the relevant bits to your questions. You won't believe that either. I am communicating perfectly adequately, but you will believe what you are told, and only put what you are told into your brain, as if it is some sort of intellectual exercise. You must start by honouring God. You must start by taking Him at His Word that He is who He says He is, and that He does not lie. You must honour Him that when He says, in His Scritpure, that all Scripture is God breathed that He is not lying, and you will agree with that. As you will not listen to Scripture, or those who are in receipt of the grace of God, you cannot be saved. God speaks through His servants.

"God hath chosen by the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe."

If you start with the position that God is so incompetant that He cannot have people who are His faithfully deliver His Word, and accuse them of being wrong, how can you be saved? I am not God, but I deliver the Word of God. I am someone He uses to speak to people. It is not your place as an enemy of God who is utterly blind to Truth to teach me what is and what is not right in His eyes. You don't begin to know what you are talking about. It is the same as my friend's five year old girl teaching me how to write my letters. It is very sweet from her, but for a grown man to be trying to teach a servant of God what is light, when he is in darkness himself, is folly.

If you won't believe what I tell you, you had better go and find someone you will trust to tell you the truth.

"I have given you the Word of God, as His servant that is what I am called to do, and you just brush it off as something I am saying, as if I were separate from God"

Um, Justin? You ARE separate from God. I hate to tell you this but you are Justin Hughes, and he is God. You are not the same entity. In the Bible you study so hard, it does not say "In the beginning Justin Hughes created the Heaven and the Earth". This is exactly the sort of thing I mean about EITHER your imprecise use of the language, or your conflating yourself with God, which comes across as arrogance which is quite literally unparalleled.

"I would not dare tell you anything which did not accord with Him. I know Him, remember. "

I have no way of knowing that for certain - remember.

"There is no 'sodomite spawn of Satan', so I don't know what you are talking about."

It was a figure of speech, Justin, and entirely in your own idiom, so please don't feign ignorance. You do real ignorance perfectly well.

"The only thing you need to know is whether or not what I am saying agrees with the Bible. Now, as a Bible student of some years standing, with a Bible college degree, I hope you will realise, I know very well what Scripture says."

Good. Then you'll be able to point out the Bible verse which describes the Creation of Satan and his rebellion and fall.

You've told me about that several times, so let's see if what you say agrees with the Bible, as you say.

"I have quoted you Scripture, the relevant bits to your questions."

Quoting Scripture to someone who is unsaved is obviously insufficient. You KNOW this. I have only intellect to help me. You KNOW this. Intellect is useless for interpreting the Bible, as such analysis shows only apparent contradictions. You KNOW this. Such contradictions are not there if you understand it spiritually. You KNOW this. I cannot understand it spiritually. YOU KNOW THIS.

So why do you simply quote Scripture which you KNOW I am not equipped to understand? Are you taunting me? Is it a sort of sick sadistic game set up with no way to win? Because that's what it sounds like.

It sounds like all you want to do is gloat that you are saved and I am not. You know the Truth, I do not, and you want to remind me of that fact at every opportunity. You have no interest in bringing me closer to God, or you would explain yourself instead of engaging in this evasion. Indeed, it is in your interests to keep me from finding Jesus, because that way you will be able to taunt me for longer, and you certainly seem to enjoy it...

"You won't believe that either. I am communicating perfectly adequately"

I'll be the judge of that, Justin. You are NOT communicating adequately. If you were, I'd not be having to ask you to explain yourself so often.

Communicating is not the same as talking or typing. Communicating means engaging with the person with whom you are interacting, understanding the gaps in their knowledge, and supplying the information they need. What you are doing is not communicating - it is braying like an ass without any interest in the effect the noise you make has on others.

"but you will believe what you are told, and only put what you are told into your brain, as if it is some sort of intellectual exercise."

Once again, since bizarrely you seem reluctant to process this information - YOU KNOW I have no other way of processing this information UNTIL AFTER I AM SAVED. I know this only because YOU told me, and I believed you, and yet for some reason I have to keep reminding you. Why is that?

"You must start by honouring God. You must start by taking Him at His Word that He is who He says He is, and that He does not lie."

And I shall do that, the moment he choose to speak to me. Omnipotent and omnipresent as he is, he could, if he wished, choose to do so RIGHT NOW, as I type these words. Or do you deny that he has that power? Surely not.

He has that power, but has so far chosen not to speak to me. If you have a problem with that, I suggest you take it up with him. There's nothing I can do about it, and *I* do not hold it against him or feel bad about it.

"You must honour Him that when He says, in His Scritpure, that all Scripture is God breathed that He is not lying, and you will agree with that."

In my current unsaved state, I cannot distinguish Scripture, god-breathed or otherwise, from the random scribblings of any passing loonie. Therefore, I cannot trust myself to believe ANY Scripture, for fear of giving credit to godless heathen texts - at least until I'm saved and can, as you do, detect false scripture by spiritual means. Surely this is only good sense, to avoid the Satanic which claims to be Christian? The Scripture will still be there after I'm saved (if and when I am).

"As you will not listen to Scripture, or those who are in receipt of the grace of God, you cannot be saved."

Hang on - until I'm saved I won't KNOW who is in receipt of the grace of God. You say you are - but why should I trust you? I don't know you. I know almost nothing about you. I would be naive and stupid in the extreme to believe someone simply on the basis of what they tell me, especially on a subject as important as this.

I'm concerned. You seem to be telling me that I've no way of telling who is to be trusted until I'm saved - but unless I trust SOMEONE, I'll never be saved!

This seems like a Catch-22, or at the very least an enormous gamble. You are asking me to trust *you*, out of all the other preachers who say they have a direct line to God, based on nothing more than your say-so, that you are NOT a demonically possessed Satanist trying to draw me down the path of evil. I have no way of knowing you are not.

The only way I will ever know is if God chooses to save me. But now you tell me he won't unless I trust you first...

What should I do? I'm paralysed by indecision...

"God speaks through His servants.
"God hath chosen by the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe.""

OK... You're not saying, are you, that that is the ONLY way God has of saving people? Because if you are, you are placing rather tight limits on the extent of his power, arent' you? (this is a question, not an accusation or an attempt to deny anything)

"If you start with the position that God is so incompetant that He cannot have people who are His faithfully deliver His Word, and accuse them of being wrong, how can you be saved?"

If YOU start from the position that God is so weak that he cannot speak to me directly without using inarticulate preachers as middlemen, how were you ever saved?

Note: I'm NOT accusing you of being wrong. I'm saying *I* cannot trust *myself* to believe you. I simply am not equipped to make a judgement on you, in the way that you judge me. Therefore I refuse to make a judgement until I am properly equipped. This I think is only good sense, for otherwise I risk listening to prophets of Satan and believing them to speak for God.

"I am not God, but I deliver the Word of God. I am someone He uses to speak to people."

So you say. But you KNOW, Justin, that I cannot confirm that fact until AFTER I'm saved. Therefore I cannot risk trusting you, justin case your words are false. Surely you can understand that? Doesn't it make sense?

"It is not your place as an enemy of God who is utterly blind to Truth to teach me what is and what is not right in His eyes."

And I have never tried to, so I don't know why you bring it up.

"You don't begin to know what you are talking about. It is the same as my friend's five year old girl teaching me how to write my letters."

No, it isn't you silly man.

It's like your friend's five year old girl ASKING you, nicely, to teach her to spell "Salvation", and for you to turn around to her and instruct her loudly and repetitively how to spell "Hate".

And having her thank you for telling her how to spell "Hate", but asking again, as carefully and clearly as possible, how to spell "Salvation", and telling you that she KNOWS you know, and could you please tell her.

And then you get angry with her, and tell her she's bad for trying to tell you how to spell "Hate". And she points out that YOU told HER how to spell "Hate", and now she knows, thank you, but she'd really, really like to learn how to spell "Salvation", so could you tell her please.

So you tell her how to spell "Sin", and "Pain", and "Suffering". And she thanks you for all these lessons. And if she's like most little girls, she gives up, and concludes that you don't, in fact, know how to spell "Salvation" at all, but you couldn't bring yourself to admit it in front of a little girl.

Well I think you DO know how to spell "Salvation", Justin. So I'm going to keep asking you until you tell me. I'm a deal more patient and persistent than the average five year old, you'll find.

"It is very sweet from her, but for a grown man to be trying to teach a servant of God what is light, when he is in darkness himself, is folly."

I'm not trying to teach you anything Justin. I'm trying, with great patience, to get you to teach me. It's extremely hard work, as you seem reluctant to tell me anything at all which I can use, and prefer to insult me, make random reference to things I haven't said, and to go on about things that you and I both know perfectly well, e.g. I cannot understand spiritual things and cannot divine who is and who is not saved until I am first saved myself.

Despite what you seem to think, I'm not one for trying to teach people what they know better than I. I respect greater knowledge.

Example: my martial arts instructor is a humble and friendly man who has spent the last 28 years studying a number of Oriental styles of unarmed and armed combat. He teaches, you might even say "preaches", a particular style. He does not keep secrets, or ever say "that is not for your ears", as you do about spiritual matters.

Some things he does not teach, it is true, until he believes a student is ready, mentally and physically. But he does not hide anything, or evade questions. And the interesting thing is - he wants to learn from his students. One of his favourite observations is "if you think you have a better way - USE IT. And see if it really is better...".

Of course, his 28 years of experience and the in excess of two and a half thousand years of development behind his style means that it's incredibly unlikely anyone WILL come up with a better way - but he is absolutely clear on the fact that he is still learning, from students as well as from more experienced masters. And he's also clear that he WANTS his students to be able to run rings around him. Not for him gloating over the fact that he is a master and we students are not his equals. No - he seeks to bring us up to his level. He actively wants us to be better. You could learn something from *him*, I think, about communication if nothing else.

"If you won't believe what I tell you, you had better go and find someone you will trust to tell you the truth."

Ah - the crux. I want you to tell me YOUR truth. Pilate said to Christ, "What is truth?" John 18:38. I believe YOU believe what you say - or at least you have for a long time. I think perhaps your constant repetition of it here on this website, and your need to say it so loudly in public, is evidence of doubt - but what do I know? You will, I am sure, deny it vehemently, as you did when Matholwch the Apostate first suggested it. But as Gertrude said to Hamlet Prince of Denmark - "methinks the lady doth protest too much".

Whether it is the truth - I cannot say. Only God can tell me that - right?

H.

Hi Justin .

"God created Satan as an angel of light, and archangel. He was created with FREE WILL"

Well I've been though both my King James and my New Life but can I find anything to back this up? Justin, old scholar, I would appreciate it if you could show me where in scripture it says that any of the many Choirs of Angels had free will. As far as I can discover in the perfect Word of God, only man received that gift.

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\.

Hoovooloo,

You don't understand, you are applying your thinkiing and your situation to me, as if I am in the same place as you. I am NOT separate from God, NO Christian is separate from God. That is what sin does.

I understand that you are separate from God yourself, as I was there once myself. But,like all Christians, Christ, who is God, lives IN me by His Spirit. I am spiritually fused into Him, and Him into me, and that becomes more so as the work of God in sanctfication goes on.

Please don't assume that just because you are separate from God and don't know Him that that means so are Christians.

I can tell you where to find,in the Word of God, the reference to Satan's fall, Isa.14:12 on, but, as you don't believe God, you don't believe His servants, and won't accept the Word of God to be just that, I don't see why you would want to know.

You don't need to understand the Bible in your state, and you don't need anyone to interpret it for you; even if they did you would not understand what they mean. You must be born again and then you will see as Christians see. That is God's work in you, not mine, or yours. All you need to understand is that you are totally corrupted by sin, with no good in you in and of yourself. When you see that with no doubt whatever you will then seek Christ to be delivered of it. But, as you see yourself as fundamentally good, with the odd bit which may need some modification, you don't think you 'need' Christ, and you cannot be saved.

As for communication; until you are prepared to get off your high horse and cease from instructing God and His servants, and listen to what they say to you, you will NEVER understand.

Almighty God is speaking to you through me, but you won't listen. God uses His servants to speak. He is not likely to speak to you directly. It does happen, but rarely. Usually He uses His body, the Church, to speak to the world, beginning with the apostles, and with many others thereafter. You are trying to divorce His body from Him. If you don't think I am a servant of God then you must go and find someone who is, and who you will listen to. If I am a servant of God then you had better stop demanding things be done your way and listen to those who serve Him. If I am a servant of God then, by divorcing me from God is blaspheming the work of God in me. If I am not a servant of God you had better go away and leave me alone, had you not? And find someone who is a servant of God.

There is no Catch22. If God is speaking to you through one of His servants you will know it. If you are not hearing God speak to you, and touch your life, then either the person is not the Lord's servant, or God is not yet speaking to you.

I do not restrict God at all. I told you WHAT HE SAYS. He works by His Word. He spoke, and the world was. He speaks through His servants and people are saved. I call that power..........

It is nothing to do with me. If God is speaking to you through me, or not, then that is a matter for Him, not me.

There is only one way into the kingdom of God. The path is through conviction of sin, and a being brought to Christ by His own work, through His people. You appear determined not to accept that you are a sinner, and until you come there, there is no point explaining the cure. Only sick men need medicine.

You are not required to understand anything as I have told you. All you need to see is your utterly rotten state, and that is HIS work to show you. Not a pretty sight, either.

Almighty God is not a mere man that He needs instruction from men. His people DO NOT look to any mere man for instruction,but to God. You are trying to use worldly thinking and make it apply to spiritual things, you cannot do that. It is like trying to apply a handbook for a Ford Fiesta to a high-tec fighter bomber.

It is NOT me that says you are not to be privvy to spiritual things, it is GOD, as I showed you in the appropriate text. The things of God are for HIS people, and not for outsiders and enemies.