A Conversation for GG: Carmina Burana - Drink, Sex and Mediaeval Monks
Peer Review: A699069 - Carmina Burana - Drink, Sex and Mediaeval Monks
Gnomon - time to move on Started conversation Mar 2, 2002
Entry: Carmina Burana - Drink, Sex and Mediaeval Monks - A699069
Author: Gnomon - U151503
Here's an entry about the ever popular choral work "Carmina Burana".
A699069 - Carmina Burana - Drink, Sex and Mediaeval Monks
John the gardener says, "Free Tibet!" Posted Mar 3, 2002
Bravissimo! Encore... Encore...!
JTG's Journal:
O Fortuna (Nov 10, 2001)
Went to see/hear/experience Carmina Burana at Toronto's Roy Thomson Hall on Tuesday night. Wow! What a feast of sight and sound! A vast choir and an orchestra with everything but the organ grinder's monkey seemed to occupy as much space as the audience. The choir, orchestra, and soloists seemed to revel in this 13th century musical tribute to sex, booze, and roast swan. "oh, oh, oh, totus floreo..."
Thanks for the reminder.
JTG
A699069 - Carmina Burana - Drink, Sex and Mediaeval Monks
Zarquon's Singing Fish! Posted Mar 3, 2002
Me too!
I'm going to put a word in for 'Dulcissime' - not mentioned and one of the most beautiful parts in the piece.
A699069 - Carmina Burana - Drink, Sex and Mediaeval Monks
Bels - an incurable optimist. A1050986 Posted Mar 3, 2002
Great piece, great Entry.
I never quite worked out how many Wafnas there are supposed to be - usually one or more of the men sings at least one too many.
Ever heard the roasting swan done by a countertenor? I once heard James Bowman do it. Fantastic!
And when the angelic choirboys sing 'Iam amore virginale totus ardeo' (or whatever it is) - sure, 'tis a moment to treasure.
A699069 - Carmina Burana - Drink, Sex and Mediaeval Monks
Zarquon's Singing Fish! Posted Mar 3, 2002
Yes, I used to sing with the Birmingham Choral Society (formed before Birmingham became a city) and we had a countertenor - stunning!
A699069 - Carmina Burana - Drink, Sex and Mediaeval Monks
Bels - an incurable optimist. A1050986 Posted Mar 3, 2002
Is that the one that is now the Birmingham City Choir? Just curious, you understand. Do they sometimes join the CBSC?
A699069 - Carmina Burana - Drink, Sex and Mediaeval Monks
Zarquon's Singing Fish! Posted Mar 3, 2002
No, it's separate. I've not lived in Birmingham now for ove 10 years, so I've lost touch with it really. We did some good stuff though. African Sanctus was my favourite!
A699069 - Carmina Burana - Drink, Sex and Mediaeval Monks
Azara Posted Mar 3, 2002
Hi, Gnomon!
Great entry!
I found just one typo: 'monasterey' for 'monastery' in the background section.
Azara
A699069 - Carmina Burana - Drink, Sex and Mediaeval Monks
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Mar 3, 2002
Thanks, Azara! I've fixed that typo now.
Singing Fish, I'm not going to add "Dulcissime". It may be beautiful, but it's only 40 seconds long. There isn't space to mention every one of the 25 songs in the work.
A699069 - Carmina Burana - Drink, Sex and Mediaeval Monks
Bels - an incurable optimist. A1050986 Posted Mar 3, 2002
While you are fixing typos, it should be 'Songs of Beuren' acc. to most sources. But congrats on getting 'Benediktbeuern' - most people think it's '-beuren'.
Of course it's now been shown that the MS didn't originate in Benediktbeuern but in Seckau. I mention that because Benedictines might be a bit upset.
Although your title mentions mediaeval monks you don't say anything about them except that the MS was reportedly found in a monastery (which in any case was not where it came from). It might be worth adding a note about the 'goliards' and explaining that they were disgraced vagabonds who were possibly defrocked monks, but not monks actually under vows or in Holy Orders. This is nothing to do with the music of course, but just in case there are religious sensitivities.
A699069 - Carmina Burana - Drink, Sex and Mediaeval Monks
Bels - an incurable optimist. A1050986 Posted Mar 3, 2002
One other small point - people prob. won't have heard of Schmeller so perhaps a brief note about him?
A699069 - Carmina Burana - Drink, Sex and Mediaeval Monks
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Mar 4, 2002
A699069 - Carmina Burana - Drink, Sex and Mediaeval Monks
Bels - an incurable optimist. A1050986 Posted Mar 4, 2002
Very well - I can suggest a couple of places to start from:
http://www.nmt.edu/~golias/goliard.html
http://www.auburn.edu/~downejm/sp/rabfw/carmina.htm
A699069 - Carmina Burana - Drink, Sex and Mediaeval Monks
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Mar 4, 2002
I've rewritten the "Background" section so that it now explains about the Goliards.
Bueren in modern German is just another way of writing Büren. I assume they are the same word.
A699069 - Carmina Burana - Drink, Sex and Mediaeval Monks
Bels - an incurable optimist. A1050986 Posted Mar 4, 2002
Great stuff.
And you're quite right, but it isn't either Bueren or Büren, it's Beuren, isn't it?
A699069 - Carmina Burana - Drink, Sex and Mediaeval Monks
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Mar 4, 2002
Some web sites call it Songs of Bueren. Others call it songs of Beuren. I think on consideration I'll go along with Encyclopaedia Britannica, which says "Songs of Beuern".
A699069 - Carmina Burana - Drink, Sex and Mediaeval Monks
Henry Posted Mar 4, 2002
Good stuff Gnomon - really well done. That's all I was going to say, but after having read the thread, I must say I came away with the impression that the Goliards were a religious order. It's really the mention of defrocking that did it - after all, how could they be stripped of authority by a body that didn't give it to them in the frist place?
That picky note aside, a brilliant entry.
A699069 - Carmina Burana - Drink, Sex and Mediaeval Monks
Bels - an incurable optimist. A1050986 Posted Mar 4, 2002
A699069 - Carmina Burana - Drink, Sex and Mediaeval Monks
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Mar 4, 2002
I think the Goliards were originally properly ordained priests and genuine monks. They broke away from the church but continued to ordain new priests into the group, so that by Church law they were genuine priests. THe CHurch tried to stop them saying mass, teaching and so on, and eventually took the step of 'defrocking', stripping them of their priestly status. But this step was after Carmina Burana was written.
I hope that this is clear in what I have written in the Entry.
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Peer Review: A699069 - Carmina Burana - Drink, Sex and Mediaeval Monks
- 1: Gnomon - time to move on (Mar 2, 2002)
- 2: Post Team (Mar 2, 2002)
- 3: John the gardener says, "Free Tibet!" (Mar 3, 2002)
- 4: Zarquon's Singing Fish! (Mar 3, 2002)
- 5: Bels - an incurable optimist. A1050986 (Mar 3, 2002)
- 6: Zarquon's Singing Fish! (Mar 3, 2002)
- 7: Bels - an incurable optimist. A1050986 (Mar 3, 2002)
- 8: Zarquon's Singing Fish! (Mar 3, 2002)
- 9: Azara (Mar 3, 2002)
- 10: Gnomon - time to move on (Mar 3, 2002)
- 11: Bels - an incurable optimist. A1050986 (Mar 3, 2002)
- 12: Bels - an incurable optimist. A1050986 (Mar 3, 2002)
- 13: Gnomon - time to move on (Mar 4, 2002)
- 14: Bels - an incurable optimist. A1050986 (Mar 4, 2002)
- 15: Gnomon - time to move on (Mar 4, 2002)
- 16: Bels - an incurable optimist. A1050986 (Mar 4, 2002)
- 17: Gnomon - time to move on (Mar 4, 2002)
- 18: Henry (Mar 4, 2002)
- 19: Bels - an incurable optimist. A1050986 (Mar 4, 2002)
- 20: Gnomon - time to move on (Mar 4, 2002)
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