h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I would like to be rid of a few of the users who are on PC, there is a complaints system in place, set up by H2G2 to do that very thing, however you can't just blindly cut every digibox user off, just because you 'Don't like' a few of them.

What you are actually saying is that you wish to punish everyone on digibox, why?

Xander

So there is a fundamental question of legality here? As a previous poster has stated if an individual wants to use a link that is apparently 'illegal' surely that remains the perogative of that individual? I cannot comprehend the idea of objecting to other users simply because they happen to access the site in a different manner, surely there is a case for a degree of perspective? It seems to me that this apparent hatred of Digibox users is borne of a misplaced dislike, surely if you have the desire, the motivation and the time to be champion of a cause then make it one that truly matters and makes an essential difference to society and sociatial influences.

Just my opinion, and one that is largely impartial given that I pay a substantial amount each month, in hte main to allow me access to this site!

Goodnight all.

Litchick

Proper point(s) coming up then Saturnine.

1. Who has personally informed someone *important* at TeleWest that this access method? Rumour that your mate may have told some tech support bod in a chat doesn't count.

2. Whom did you tell (position within company)?

3. Have you had verification that they actually received the notification?

4. How long ago was that?

5. On previous form, how long will it be before you ought to have recieved some sort of official reply (beyond mere acknowledgement of receipt of email/letter)?

6. On previous form, how long would it be before TeleWest might reasonably be expected to take any action? - even if they mess it up first time or decide to make the link one of their advertised features instead!

And as I've said, that's sad, but life's a .

AKA-I'm trying very hard to be calm about this, but I just don't see what problem you have, it seems to me that you have, in the past, had an issue or two with digibox users and as a way of getting rid of those people, you've decided to TRY and cut everyone off, good luck, I'm sure it wont be long before I'm back.

Xander

Right as everyone seems hellbent on ignoring me on this thread this evening, this posting will not make the blidest bit of difference to anyone!

My partner currently works for telewest and I will raise your concerns so that may be raised in a meeting tomorrow!

I still think this is a slightly elitist view point, as some of you have said that you only want people you like to have access to this site, well guess what? Life don't work that way and we all hae to put up with thigs we dont like. The internet is no different!

Actually, litchick, the personal choice to (possibly) abuse a system isn't the whole of the issue.

a) *If* the access is illegal then the BBC shouldn't be seen to be condoning illegal acts - except that as already mentioned they have precedent for not caring when it suits them.

b) It is possible (I don't have the data to hand) that the digibox users between them use the site to a degree which is:

i) blocking other TeleWest subscribers - possibly from "legitimate" services by overloading the servers. This is a TW problem.

ii) causing the BBCi service overloads and thus damaging the service for legitimate subscribers to other ISPs.

This last point *is* an issue for the BBC and other users since it affects the immediate cost to the BBC and the number of errors and page losses experienced by everyone unless the BBC can manage to meet the demand by adding more servers. This particular consequence is a nuisance regardless of how the digibox users actually behave on site. Note though that it does very much depend on whether the data actually supports the view that digibox users are contributing more than their fair share to the server load, eg by being able to have such convenient access compared with those who have to go to school/college, work (dodgy!) or libraries and internet cafes. Even people on home PCs sometimes have to share them.

"Oh, and as far as Im aware, the link via digibox has been shut down a number of times but a new link has been created in its place! So your campaign won't work."

You're either lying, or misinformed. If you're going to come up with 'facts' on what's happened after the placement of the Outgoing Traffic Firewall, please first know a thing or two about what you're talking about. The block for external links has been stopped, because Telewest didn't like it. It took a while for them to figure out, but they did it in the end. This allowed all domain names not declared by them as 'safe' to be accessed.

Thus, bbc.co.uk, teletext.co.uk (perhaps. I'm not sure where they host their digibox content) and other domains are freely accessible on a digibox. Since h2g2 resides on bbc.co.uk now, digibox users can access it, thus defeating the firewall.

The firewall is serverside, as opposed to the clicking of the link which is client-side; Meaning, that the link can be clicked on the digibox equipment, but you can't defeat anything at SERVER level (Ie: the firewall) unless you find a crack in the cement: Namely the ability to access sites that live on allowed domains.

If you read http://82.42.98.165/digibox.html You'd know that.

This has only been defeated once. And because of the allowed domains flaw. It is not possible to change the code in the LINK, the link is merely an HTML Hyperlink to another page. Thus is the premise of the Web. Once the leaks in the firewall are patched, Telewest can be sure that only traffic they want to be allowed, will be allowed, from the digibox systems, and no further revisions of the link 'crack' or 'hack', can possibly get around this.

I know this because I'm a fairly knowledgeable Web Applications Programmer, and have dealt a lot with server configurations aside from other technical things like that.

Just to put the record straight on the technical side of things.

"...had an issue or two with digibox users..."

Wrong. It's nearer I don't mind /one or two/ digibox users, and I can't stand the rest of them.

AKA.. you have put that link up so many times knowing fullfull well that d-boxes cant access it!

AKA-I applaud your technical knowledge, well done.

So what's your point?

Xander

AKA-As was my original thought when I read your original post and by also reading your front/home page, you are elitist.

Xander

"you are lying or misinformed"

You're calling me a danm liar!!
Right aka, I know this as a fact as at the time, I accessed this site via a digibox. The link was destroyed and another one appeared in its place about three days later, so I would appreciate you keeping your rather rude remarks to youself!

As far as fiewalls and your fairly 'knowledgeable' career goes, I really dont care! I added a FACT if the best you can do is accuse people of lying then maybe its folk like you who should be banned!!

Hello Just Willow,

Sorry you think you are being ignored. Part of the problem is that you are not addressing the issues here but going off on a tangent which this thread is *not* supposed to be about. Apparently there's another one somewhere for ranting about hating digibox users or not! Another part of the problem is the large number of simulposts.

Responding to your post 258:

"the point of this 'debate'" - that's a valid query since there may not be a point as such. People have presumably already informed TeleWest. So it isn't about whether they should! The only remaining points are probably: raising awareness that the digibox email access method *may* be illegal, allowing Sat and aka to point out that it isn't about hating all digibox users and they never said it was. It could well be one of those "last straw" things though.

"banning all people on digibox"

It isn't about banning people. That's a BBCi decision not a TW one. So please try to use some more accurate, less emotive term such as excluding digibox access. The same people would be able to use the same accounts from other places, eg libraries as many already do. TW blocking the loophole would probably reduce the quantity of posting but that is all. No-one would be banned unless the BBC decided that they should block criminal activity and checked for TW IP addresses - I can't see that happening at all and it still wouldn't necessarily mean banning destination h2g2 accounts - just specific source IPs.

Dragon lord. this is where the link aka would of taken you

Why the TV-Email Internet Hack is Illegal
My article, pulled from h2g2
Note: Article Updated 4/1/04
This is the version that was pulled; I have yet to re-write it to completely remove accusations of theft

Once upon a time, a Digital TV company existed. They offered free e-mail accessible through your TV, amongst other things like News and Shopping, and lots of TV channels. This Article will focus on the TV E-mail part, since it was the TV E-mail which allowed anybody who used it, complete access to the global Internet. Something which the system was not built to cater for, and it was this 'hack' that gave hundreds of people free Internet access without a service provider.

To clarify: Accessing the Internet without an official provider in this way, by making use of a hole in the system, is like watching people go into a sweet shop and buy the sweets therein, and whilst the shopkeeper is busy, break in through the back entrance and steal the sweets held in the store room; Although do not take this analogy literally as the bandwidth is there for the taking, but this article is addressing the usage of the bandwidth on non-digiboxSites that are not freely accessible from the digibox's inner menu system, such as h2g2. Websites. Nobody is being accused of being a <smiley type="thief"/>.

Imagine the Shopkeeper to be the Systems Administrator, witnessing all of their resources go away into a task for which the system was not designed; And although not many people who gladly use this 'hack', care-free know about it, it's still not a good thing. It is for this reason that this article exists to educate exactly why it shouldn't be done.

What Is the Telewest Set Top Box?
The Telewest Digital Set Top Box is a small VCR sized piece of equipment which, when connected to the Telewest network and your television, provides a host of content made available by fast, fibre-optic cables. Such content can be sent as TV signals, giving better quality picture and sound than receiving terrestrial TV through an aerial; Or it can be sent in the form of digital information held on the Internet.

Telewest offer services like NewsFrom the BBC, Weather, Information, Phone Books, the 'Red Button' functionalityA system whereby when the 'red' button is pressed on the remote control, if the currently airing TV programme is sending out a 'red button' signal, the Set Top Box flicks to Interactive mode and shows extra relevant content.... and TV E-mail.

What Exactly Does Telewest Offer in this Package?
With the Telewest Digital TV package, you can watch TV, listen to digital radio stations, and access some Interactive content. Content which happens to be on the Internet. Telewest don't offer Internet access; They have a branch-off company to do that. Blueyonder provides PCs and Macs in the UKSmall note: Blueyonder won't connect a Linux machine to the 'net via them. Even though it will work. If you want them to connect your Linux machine, install Windows on a small partition if you can, and get them to install it on there. When you boot into Linux, the beautiful thing that it is, will pick up on your new found connection automatically. with a dial-up or Broadband connection to the Internet. They don't offer Internet access to digital TV users; The software in the Set Top Box was not built for the 'Web, and the providing servers are insufficient to withstand requests for all the content on the 'Web that so many customers at a time might be requesting.

TV E-mail
TV E-mail allows each Telewest home to have up to three e-mail accounts, which can send and receive e-mail from any functioning e-mail address provided by Telewest, or any other e-mail providerSuch as Hotmail, Yahoo! or its own branch-off ISP, Blueyonder.. Due to a flaw in the system, the code of the Internet, HTMLHyperText Markup Language can be incorporated into e-mails sent to Set Top Boxes. This code can display different coloured or sized fontsThis is perfectly harmless, or it can provide a link to websites on the Internet.

So, What's Wrong With That?
So, any Website in the world can be accessed via this small piece of equipment; an action which not only taxes the Set Top Box, and causes the user an immense amount of difficulty, but also the providing servers and the bandwidth of Telewest have a hard time of it, too. Telewest have realised this problem recently and to attempt to put a stop to it, have blocked all domain names which do not reside in what is commonly called the Website 'garden'A bunch of Websites which are freely accessible, via the open walkthrough/link in the system. Sites in the 'garden' are intended to be viewed. Sites outside it, are not. from being accessed. If an 'external' domain namesuch as www.yahoo.com, or www.hotmail.com is requested, the Set Top Box will show an error message stating that the requested Web address is unavailable from the Digibox, and the call to the requested Website will fail.In English: The requested external content does not load.

So There's No Longer a Problem?
The problem actually still remains - Because bbc.co.uk resides in the Telewest garden, to provide Telewest Digital customers with News and Weather in a flatter, basic form of its Internet News Website, all sub-sites that live on bbc.co.uk are also accessible. This includes all of the DNA sites, the BBC Messageboards, the Cult TV section -- everything that BBCi are to publish on bbc.co.uk.

Remind Me Why This is a Problem?
This is a problem for not only Telewest, but its customers, because as those who use the flaw in the system to access sites like h2g2 through an E-mail hack eat up the bandwidth on h2g2 and other bbc.co.uk sites, (effectively robbing the store of its stock of sweets, if you like -- even though they may be unaware of it; Take for instance the example of the mother whose child is actually stealing the sweets. The mother is responsible, even if she is unaware of the child's behaviour in the store. In this analogy, think of the digibox user as the mother, and the digibox itself as the spoilt child defrauding the sweet shop), everything slows down -- Parts of the country may not be able to use the Interactive services due to server lockupsCaused by what is called in the computing world as the Slashdot effect -- The constant haranguing of a server by many, many requests until it gives up and diesAn example is that which happened to the SCO Website due to the recent Mydoom E-mail worm. This would be Telewest's problem to sort out, by purchasing new servers, providing more bandwidth -- but the reason they need more bandwidth and servers to solve the problem is down to usage of their equipment which is, seemingly against Telewest's will.

You're Lying (or "I Have Something to Add that Contradicts You")
I do not work for Telewest, but I've had enough experience with their equipment and technology of the 'Web in general to understand that the volume of Telewest digibox users who do use the site (and other BBCi sites not intended for heavy data transfer) via the 'hack' must be causing the system a great deal of harm. Since the Telewest system does not provide Internet Access via its Set Top Box, it's obvious that Telewest are not going to cater for such usage, and thus, when request for heavy content on the 'Web is called, in the volume of traffic equal to as many digibox h2g2ers are online at a time, the systems behind the digibox services are going to be compromised.

If you work for Telewest, and are authorised to represent the company, and also, would like to correct me, then please e-mail me from a @telewest.co.uk e-mail account.

Also...
Please do not leave a message on this Article just to say that "Telewest provide free e-mail, and if I can get to h2g2 from E-mail that means I can legally get to h2g2 for free, without paying Telewest a penny extra."; You only get the e-mail and some sites as part of your Interactive TV package. Also, just because some Telewest employees also claim to use the 'hack', or claim that they know all about it, it does not mean that Telewest as a company are letting it go, and allowing free access to sites it does not advertise in its inner menu system.

As noted above, if a Telewest employee who is authorised to represent the company and the IT department of it, which would be most aware of the extra bandwidth being used, than anywhere else in the company, please e-mail me via the link given, from your workplace e-mail account.

Could You Explain Something Else For Me?
If you are still uncertain as to why accessing h2g2 through the e-mail hack, also known throughout the former LD community as the 'magic e-mail' is illegal, and in violation of your Telewest Terms of Service, please leave a message in the forum below.

Thank you Xander. My technical knowledge is supremely superior.
But anyway. That was addressing a post saying that the link has been re-written and that same post implied that it will be re-written again, and again, and again. The hack is a very basic one and it will not be defeated easily, once the hole is patched.

"AKA.. you have put that link up so many times knowing fullfull well that d-boxes cant access it!"

Oh. Oops. Well, when it comes back online to h2g2, you can read it at A2257319. Sorry. Maybe this shows how much against Telewest's will it is to see external pages like those on h2g2 then; The rest of the Internet is blocked, yet via a loophole, h2g2 is accessible. Maybe more people will realise this now. Few seem to be posting except to miss the point and spout personal abuse.

This post has been removed.