h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

and here's the clickable link...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A571862

(just copy & paste the whole line from your browser's navigation bar!)

* off to read the entry *

Hee hee, the story at the beginning is very, err... interesting. A few of us (males) around here might want to know how to be in control... - I'm stopping here, that's not to the point, and I don't want to be on the receiving end of some tomato throwing.

Your entry would benefit from headers and subheaders of one kind or another. Of course, GuideML is the means of choice, but if that's too difficult (it isn't!!! - see http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/guideml-clinic) then use some double line breaks and uppercase text to subdivide the text please.

H2G2 doesn't use double quotes (") within entries, instead, you may use single quotes or the and (Italic) GuideML tags.

The list of quotations gets a bit lengthy towards the end.

"The Way means inducing the people to have the same aim as the leadership, so that they will share death and share life, without fear of danger"
'The Way' seems to be some regular expression. If so, it should have its own paragraph of explanation. - I guess this quote has made its way into all those managers' guides about "employees' motivation". Sun Tzu could earn a fortune if he started some consultants bureau today!

The next two quotes (near&far, surprise) seem to have been properly obeyed by coalition forces in the Gulf...
Some of the following quotes make me think about the US missile defense thingy... ok, this is not the place to start discussions about tactics.

Well, the enumeration of quotes towards the end may be exhausting to the uninitiated reader, and I'd say you cut them down to a dozen, or better: let them have an entry of their own (they deserve an entry, but IMHO this is too much for an entry that introduces Sun Tzu to the casual reader). 'Old Chinese Tactics' or so might be the header, as I think a few of them are outdated now, taking account of recconaissance satellites and Early Warning Airborne Surveillance Wizardry.

Anyway: there won't be problems getting this one into the Guide!

I certainly approve of the subject matter

That being said, on with the critique.

I too think that the article would benefit from headers.

I think you need to define the Way? Is it the Way of Taoism? Is it more akin to bushido? Is it a buddhist principle of some sort? Or perhaps Confucious had his own view of the Way and Sun Tzu subscribed to that philosophy?

Take more time to describe the story of Sun Tzu and the courtesans. The story went something like, the general ordered left face and some of the courtesans merely giggled, some turned left, and others turned left. Also you need to stress the point that Wu's courtesan's were the Captians because of their rank amongst themselves.

Stick with what you know. It's obvious that you have access to a considerable amount of quotes by the general. Spend a section on you most favorite ones and explain them. Not everyone is a strategist, not everyone has the soul of a warrior. But anyone can learn.

I would spend a paragraph or to with the history of the land, ie why there is a war in the first place in china. Describe what you know of Wu, and who his enemies were. Then spend a paragraph about the general, telling all we know and tell the courtesan story. Then a paragraph of quotations and explanations. Then a conclusion paragraph explaining how Sun Tzu has made an impact on the world today, through the Japanese warrior societies to today.


Then again, these are only my opinions, you could disagree and still get into the guide.

I certainly approve of the subject matter

That being said, on with the critique.

I too think that the article would benefit from headers.

I think you need to define the Way? Is it the Way of Taoism? Is it more akin to bushido? Is it a buddhist principle of some sort? Or perhaps Confucious had his own view of the Way and Sun Tzu subscribed to that philosophy?

Take more time to describe the story of Sun Tzu and the courtesans. The story went something like, the general ordered left face and some of the courtesans merely giggled, some turned left, and others turned left. Also you need to stress the point that Wu's courtesan's were the Captians because of their rank amongst themselves.

Stick with what you know. It's obvious that you have access to a considerable amount of quotes by the general. Spend a section on you most favorite ones and explain them. Not everyone is a strategist, not everyone has the soul of a warrior. But anyone can learn.

I would spend a paragraph or to with the history of the land, ie why there is a war in the first place in china. Describe what you know of Wu, and who his enemies were. Then spend a paragraph about the general, telling all we know and tell the courtesan story. Then a paragraph of quotations and explanations. Then a conclusion paragraph explaining how Sun Tzu has made an impact on the world today, through the Japanese warrior societies to today.


Then again, these are only my opinions, you could disagree and still get into the guide.

CHEERS FOLKS, I have not got a lot of time to come online at the moment but I realy appretiate you taking the time and I agree with most of what has been said. I'll make changes as soon as possible should be looking better and broken into two entries by monday, but dont let that stop you giving suggestions!

Yours thankfully,
Merangadan.

Err... which Monday?

A tiny sugestion, loose the long list of quotes from the end, and say instead that anyone interested can download the entire book from project gutenberg.

The only other nigle is formatting. It looks better if your fortyninth paragraph has had some sort of boundry between it and the first paragraph. These bountries are usually called headings.

Keep up the good work.

I agree with the comments above re: formatting. Since the article is longish, it is helpful to provide headers and subheaders so people can look for the bits they want to read first, if they are in a hurry.

Sun Tzu is certainly fascinating, and this is a very interesting article. The point about the Way, which I assume is the Tao, (since Tao means 'way' ) is well taken. That could use expansion.

Two niggly irritating comments:

1) Apostrophes, you didn't use any. You might want to consider it, as a formality of sorts.

2) All the Chinese transliterations you used are Yale standard, except for 'Qi', which is pinyin, and 'Confucious', which is a Latinised name. I don't remember any more, exactly, but his real name was something like 'Gang Fu Tsu'. Whatever choice you make for transliterations, it should probably be consistent throughout. 'Qi' would be 'Chi', if I remember Yale Standard.

They used pinyin, and not Yale Standard, when I studied Chinese at Yale. Pinyin is the modern 'accepted' transliteration. It is a pain in the tuchis to type, because of all the diacritical marks, but it is more accurate -- for people who know how to read pinyin.

The quotations are interesting. I would like to know more about the impact of the 'Art of War' on Japan. When was the Sino-Japanese War? The dates are lost in the midst of 30 years or so ago... but I do remember the Japanese whipped the Chinese to groats. That is somewhat relevant, given your quotation of the Japanese interpretation. They won, because they killed *everybody* - and the Chinese were not used to that sort of thing.

Gotta recheck something, and will be right back after this commercial message from your local Ford dealership...

Uh... duh. Of course the Way is the Dào de Qïng. (and again, the umlaut is a straight line) Láo Zè was also a contemporary of 'Confucious', and the Dào was the dominant philosophy among learned Chinese.

Buddhism did not come along until after the time of Jesus, so it was nothing like that.

I would be interested in seeing an analysis of the overall impact of the Dào de Qïng on Sun Zè's approach to his philosophy, especially compared to the impact (or lack of) of Japanese Shinto on Sun Zè's Art of War, as applied by the Japanese.

There you go, another article for you to write! You can do it, though, if you find the topic interesting.

Fascinating stuff... when you get it organised, it's going to be super!

Arpeggio (2 years of uni Mandarin, and Chinese Studies, ditched in favour of things less useful, and more fun) for LeKZ

Pedantic and Irrelevant Clarification: There have been several efforts to transliterate the various Chinese languages. Yale Standard was *the* way, until the Maoist Government undertook a massive literacy campaign, and invented pinyin. Pinyin is now 'accepted', and Yale Standard has been dropped, even by Yale, these past 25 years or more.
Yale: Peking; pinyin:Béijïng (you have to pretend the umlaut is a straight horizontal line.
Yale: Mao Tse Tung; pinyin: Máo Zedòng. - 'Z'= 'dz'

trivia treat: I have just come across references to the fact that a lot of japanese business managers use the art of war as a business bible.
strange, but usefull to them.

I'm realy sorry i'm not making these changes yet but I realy do appretiate the comments and intend to imliment almost every one!

Cheers Guys,
Merangadan

I'm realy sorry i'm not making these changes yet but I realy do appretiate the comments and intend to impliment almost every one!

Cheers Guys,
Merangadan

Xyroth~

Japanese...business bible... laughing out loud funny!

How not surprising. Since WWII, they have not been allowed to have a standing military, sooo... guess where the aggression and money went, and look where the Land of the Rising Sun is today.

Hah. Trivia treat indeed.

Arpeggio and her migraine, for LeKZ

They also hail the Book of Five Rings-Miyamoto Musashi as a bible for business.

Interesting......

... and it would be great if this one got the finishing touch!

Looking at the researcher's personal space I think he was just about to start his army basic training when he wrote this article.
If that is the case he is likely to be off-line for a little while longer (spending his days rolling around in mud, getting shouted at, and generally being brainwashed.

Hopefully, he'll recover and get back to us on this one, it could be quite good.

If he ever does get round to it, there's a link on my page to quite a good translation of The Art of War (it might be worth linking to)


whisky

or as I said above, pop over to project gutenberg, and download the entire book. I have.

Editorial Note: This conversation has been moved from 'Peer Review' to 'The Flea Market'.

This thread has been moved to the Flea Market because the author seems to have 'left the building'.

As this article is now in the Flea Market (and has been for some time), I now announce my intention to revise it.