h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

My suicidal friend's situation ...

He is also important to me. He is the *only* person withwhom I could speak completely openly about many aspects of my situation because he also is in a place most other people have no idea of. He has mental chemical imbalance issues ... his condition is called dysthymia which is like depression. He has difficulty enjoying things, and has experienced romantic disappointments he has difficulty getting over. He has a recent history of problems with substance abuse, but has been 'clean' for a good period now. His outlook is very, very bleak. He is trying to get in contact with a nice girl but she is not responding to him ... he's trying to chat online and as has been mentioned here, that is something I am not very familiar with.

Questions:

Are there reasons why a girl someone is trying to contact online would refuse to speak with him? My friend in my view is 'overperceiving' the current situation ... speaking to this particular girl is currently his main mission in life and when he writes something and she doesn't answer back it is a disappointment that is ripping his heart apart. The discussions have involved nothing sexual or romantic, just an attempt at speaking on topics that by all accounts should revolve around mutual interests.

My own *perhaps mistaken* idea is that he is so intense that she feels under pressure.

Is there any other reason she might be feeling weirded out by him and not responding to him?

My friend then gave me this link which is a link this very girl posted - so there is a somewhat ironic sort of thing going on here, she doesn't wish to speak with him but she feels touched by something
someone in a very similar situation has written - here is the link and it is relevant to me, to him, to other people and just for interest look at the vitriolic comments around religion in the ensuing discussion (Jskogerboe's posting and replies to it):

http://gawker.com/i-am-sorry-that-it-has-come-to-this-a-soldiers-last-534538357?utm_campaign=socialflow_gawker_twitter&utm_source=gawker_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

Also: my friend being in an extremely vulnerable psychological condition, rejection and disappointment can be literally life-endangering. He's on the edge of a cliff - a tiny push can send him over. How does a person in such a situation approach attempts at romance - where rejection has to be expected?

Please note there is a new posting by me on the previous page as well - the above is not the first posting I made here today, and the previous one does contain things I hope would not be ignored.

>> There is a guest house, much nicer and bigger than my house,
right across the street from me. <<

I knew I was getting a B&B vibe from somewhere.

I wonder if it would be an interesting exercise to go over there
and chat with them, perhaps even offer to accept a few guests
if an occasion should arise where they are overbooked or have
an influx of unexpected travellers. Always a good idea to be on
good terms with one's neighbors. And opening yourself to some
indefinite possibility of them actually calling upon you is at least
a controlled, self directed vulnerability much to be preferred
to the abstract and intangible notions and fears of paranoia.
They may even be interested is selling some prints/cards or
directing their guests to your 'gallery'.


~jwf~

Willem, you are both extremely intense by the sound of it, and it could easily frighten off someone who might otherwise be genuinely interested. I know someone who is similar, and it is very difficult to cope with. I wish you both the best. Be careful that your friend's woes do not drag you down too much, it happens very easily.

Glad you got your car back, at least you can get out and about now and drink in the beautiful surroundings.

I feel the suggestions about taking a police officer as a lodger is someone trying to get cheap board and lodging. I haven't looked up the the exchange rate but it sounds dirt cheap to me.

A gift is something offered freely, not as a result of a hint or a direct request. Either as a thank you for a kindness, or because you genuinely like someone, never because you feel obligated or afraid to refuse. It would not surprise me in the least if that painting was taken off somewhere and sold for a nice fat profit!

But you see, am I now be paranoid or just cautious, based on long life experience? I think the latter, truly I do.

I certainly think the idea of cards etc. would be worth looking at, but the idea of a guest house or lodging house would be a very risky venture without a lot of support, and if the authorities are anything like they are here, there would be very many hoops to jump through, and you need to be stable and confident to follow such a route.

I am now alone and it has been suggested I could take someone in, but I have my own ways, and I don't think I could tolerate even a very nice person now, so I have an idea of how you feel.

I am sorry there is so little support, and I can understand your reluctance to approach a psychiatrist again, they are not always as knowledgeable and caring as we would like to think, but I do think you need to seek help somewhere.

Websailor

I can't work out which conversation you are on from the link, sorry

With respect to your friend, it would be too difficult to guage what is going from a single conversation and with participants I don't know

OK JWF what I'll do is try tomorrow to ring them and have a look and maybe ask them if they'd like some art for the guest house. I'll need guts for that though because it is very hard for me to approach other people and speak with them.

As for neighbours ... they really wear me out sometime. The neighbours on the one side of my house don't even have a doorbell (or to be more precise a security gate bell - they have just this massive gate and no way to let them know you're there). And one of them keeps throwing cigarette butts into my yard. Because they don't have a doorbell I can't go to them and ask them what the heck their problem is.

I am on good terms with the neighbour on the other side of me and the one living across the street from me two houses off the guest house.

OK Now folks PLEASE I still need help and support. Today I've continued getting better and started understanding what happened and what I almost did to myself.

Here are the factors I think played a role:

1) I had taken my car in for repairs three weeks ago. The three weeks without a car were stressful. Because of a lack of friends I also have difficulty arranging a lift. I needed two lifts during this period: one to see a music concert where acquaintances were performing, and one to take my cat to the vets. Also I was worried about my car because I didn't hear from the repair people. In my more paranoid moments I sometimes feared I would never get the car back.

2) My cat had a sore on her head. It started small and I took her to the vet but then it got worse and worse to the point of disfiguring her very pretty face. And I didn't have a car to take her to the vet again. Anyways to shorten the story, she now has to wear an Elizabethan collar to prevent herself from scratching - but I worry she will struggle out of it so I have to watch her almost the whole day - no matter what I do every now and then I have to get up and find her and make sure she's OK. Which started wearing my nerves down *seriously*. I love my cat very, very much. She's also a major reason for me not having killed myself long ago after my parents died. I attempted it a few times but my heart wasn't in it because I was thinking 'who'll take care of Poplap'? And also: now that she was sick it was feeling to me that I was failing in taking care of her so the answer to 'who'll take care of Poplap?' became 'not me because I am botching it - she'll be better off with someone else'. With the suicide attempt I was thinking that facebook friends would learn and someone there might take her in.

3) I was reading a book about Afrikaans poet Breyten Breytenbach. He was the 'only sane man' among the Afrikaners in the Apartheid years from the late sixties until the system collapsed in the early nineties. He condemned Apartheid and spoke and wrote against it. What precipitated it for him was that as a young man he went to France and there met a woman from Vietnam and married her. When he tried to return to South Africa she was refused a visa - he had transgressed the law against interracial marriages. Prior to that point he didn't realize there would be such a problem - but from that point he became vehement and he was right about Apartheid and the inhumanness inherent in it - he became involved with other people who were wronged and who were part of the struggle against it. And was *heavily* persecuted by the SA government. The incredible thing from reading the book is how *everybody* condemned him, even his fellow writers - well the weird thing is that many of them praised his *work* and even helped him to keep getting published here in spite of censorship and government opposition. You know what word journalists often used for this sort of 'doesn't make sense' contradictory attitude? Schizophrenic. They would call the attitude schizophrenic where Breytenbach was simultaneously lauded as one of the best Afrikaans poets ever and was being rewarded and at the same time he was not welcome in his own country. Finally he *was* allowed back along with Yolande - and then he was sentened to nine years in jail for his anti-Apartheid activities. It was crazy - and I was identifying so heavily with Breytenbach and how he was persecuted - and I was wondering if I was also not perhaps the only sane man because again my country - the whole world - seems crazy to me. I was wondering how Breytenbach stayed sane, how he even managed to stay *alive* with all the shit thrown at him - and with the SA security forces on his tail too - he was actually targeted by 'black ops' type folks the government would never openly acknowledge. Anyways - fascinating reading but it seems it contributed *seriously* to my feelings of paranoia.

4) With mounting levels of stress on my my perceptions and judgement were getting affected. This started one of those feedback-loops I spoke of earlier. My judgement slipped and I started transgressing against my own principles. First instance - it might sound silly but I bought myself some cheese. I had some months ago decided to become a full-on vegan for ethical reasons - I was a vegetarian before but I still consumed dairy products, but on reading of the horrible mistreatment of animals in the dairy industry I stopped. But I recently thought if I just got myself a bit of cheese this once it wouldn't be so bad. But another part of my mind hated myself for doing that. Remember I love animals - and I've just compromised in a manner where I was supporting the suffering of animals.

5) Another transgression - and I didn't even realize I had - and maybe I hadn't - but: on my art site I put the picture of a caterpillar I'd recently sketched. I used a picture I found online that wasn't attributed to anybody. I didn't copy it exactly, and at any rate it is perfectly legal as far as I know to paint or sketch something based on someone else's photo, but on that site a person reprimanded me - or so I thought - about not crediting my sketch. And with the extremely vulnerable condition I was in at that point I felt I had done something inexcusable. I also thought I had for all practical intents poisoned and tainted my entire artistic endeavour - my legacy - with corruption.

I believe these things together created a situation of stress and a feedback impairing my judgement and interfering with my perceptions which culminated in a breakdown. Like I said earlier a small thing starts it off but then it snowballs and at the end I really am not in control and don't understand what I am doing. It doesn't matter that I could speak lucidly about it - the part in control of my actions was out of the reach of my power of reason.

Thanks for your input Websailor, and sorry - I wrote the above post before seeing yours. It is hard for me and I think for my friend also to 'tone down' ... but if you spoke with me in person I think you'll find me a relaxed and pleasant person to speak with ... *if* I am balanced at the moment that is. Perhaps even if not. Even the counsellor I spoke to on Saturday said that I was making very good points and speaking well and explaining myself excellently and that he was starting to feel enlightened - and he's a counsellor for mentally ill people, so if I was helping him to understand better it must count for something!

Peanut, what exactly is it you're having difficulty with - the link I posted about the soldier's suicide? It's not part of me or my friend's conversation, it's something the girl he's trying to speak to linked in one of her own postings somewhere, but the soldier and his suicide letter resonated with my friend and with me also.

oops, that was my mistake, I thought you were having a discussion on that site also so was going through the conversations looking for you.

I have been thinking of a strategy that can be used when one suspects one might be in a "deluded" state. I'll post something on that later.

Just to reiterate my earlier suggestion. I think an extremely valuable piece of work would be an autobiography (or part autobiography)which perhaps has as central focus how you developed the condition, how you have experienced the condition, the medical assistance you have or haven't received, and how you have tried to overcome the condition. Since you also have the advantage of having artistic talents you could present some of your artwork in the autobiography. Maybe part of your artwork has been influenced by your condition and this can be tracked as your condition developed and or has varied?

In bookstores you see rows and rows of autobiographies / biographies of sports stars and celebrities. I find them on the most part extremely tedious and avoid them. I would much rather have a selection of autobiographies / biographies of "real" people having to cope with conditions and situations that although unusual and rare still directly effect a large number of people ... while giving others an insight into what others have to cope with as well as insights into anothers perspective, anothers thought patterns.

This would probably be a major piece of work as well as possibly extremely painful and difficult to write so it would need to be written in the form of a long term project as you still need to do all those other things that will bring in a steady income (including your artwork & short writings).

>> Is there any other reason she might be feeling weirded out by him and not responding to him? <<

In any relationship or potential relationship such as a male - female relationship, one has to realise that each is a separate person with their own feelings and perceptions. It is very difficult to control someone else's "feelings". For example if you have a sense that you are in love with someone else it is nearly impossible to force a reciprocal feeling in that other person. The best you can do is to show that you care about the other person. Of course one needs to be pro-active in attempting to court the other person, but you have to allow the other person to make the choice to accept the receipt of your courtship. In attempting the courtship you open yourself up a little and make yourself a little (to a lot) vulnerable to feelings of the heart ... that is why there needs to be strategies of building up the self ... making the self stronger in coping with potential "disappointments". The importance is if the other person doesn't wish to take up the court ship, you should behave in a way to maintain a friendship. Friends are just as important as"boyfriends / girlfriends".

So reasons she may not be responding. She may not realise he is interested in her in that way - she might be receiving many messages from many different people. Her thoughts might be close to fully occupied on other matters effecting her life. She might be feeling a little pressurised and needs space and time to consider her own thoughts on the matter. She may not have the same feelings for him (these things change with time). The best he can do is to show he cares about her, has feelings for her, that he would be interested in courting her, making offers of doing some activity together - going to the cinema, having a meal together ...

Hi folks! Peanut, glad the mistake is cleared up now ... any ideas regarding the soldier's letter?

Stone Aart, of course I'd like to hear your idea on how to tell if one is delusional!

I have thought of writing an autobiography but I also thought that I would need to become reasonably famous first ... OR at least achieve *some* success, because then a book about how I overcame my problems and managed to do something worthwhile would be more inspiring. Since I already *have* a large amount of finished artwork and writing I was thinking of getting that published first. I'd like to 'pitch' and idea or two to you folks ... but more on that later.

My art is actually not much influenced by my mental condition. The reason is that when I am in a psychotic state I am unable to create art - and when I'm back to normal (for me) I don't want to commemorate the horrors I had experienced. If I did art based on my paranoia it would be awfull and horriffic and potentially traumatising to many people. I create art of beautiful animals, pretty and weird plants, lovely natural scenery, or fantasy - positive and pleasant, fantastical scenes and situations. I create these in times I feel inspired, motivated - the opposite of what I was feeling on Saturday.

Now ... what you say about relationships: it is pretty much what I told my friend, too. It is important to first be able to talk with women in a friendly way with no romance or no pressure towards it. And - that is what he did. He didn't say to her he liked her, he was attracted to her, he was interested in a relationship - not even remotely. He was just trying to chat. He got a single sentence out of her, and nothing more.

This was an online conversation. He doesn't have any real physical contact with her. This is a situation with my friend ... he tries to reach out online because in addition to dysthymia he has social anxiety disorder. Also, he has the substance abuse history. He can't go to bars to meet girls because then he'll be drawn back into the cycle of abuse. It's my problem as well - I also cannot drink and cannot go to bars. So we need other ways to find women ... not just for romance but starting out simply with friendship. Still ... romance is important. I really would like to be with someone and so would my friend. So: we need to be able to do the first step which is just pleasantly talking to women who *might later* become more than just friends. But for us even that first step is incredibly hard. Now me, I realize failures would outnumber successes - for me it's not such a big deal if a girl in the end doesn't want to be more than friends. I'd settle for friendship - I have almost none of that now! My friend, though, does get extremely fixated on a particular person and trying to win the friendship or more of that person ... a rejection of initiatives towards friendship hurts as bad as rejection of romantic gestures and proposals.

But I've contacted him again and he seems to be handling it all right now ... I really am concerned about him (the way you folks are concerned about me!) because he can so easily slip from level-headedness to obsession and overreaction and he is incredibluy vulnerable.

You have identified with great clarity an understanding of what happened. You have nailed the outside stressors and how things has built up, then once they had go to a certain point they just spiralled.

These sorts of insights I think are important when it comes to spotting early warning signs, or recognising situations that you may need extra support with and having some sort of plan for how to deal with that in the future.

I would also consider the medical side. My personal thoughts are when you have had an episode like this you should go to your doctor to review your meds. Perhaps an increased dose of something would be advantagous when if you can pre-empt an episode or something needs adjusting. It may not but it is good to have on record for future reference.

I have been thinking about the soldiers letter, but I can't yet clarify my thoughts on it. I keep thinking the letter itself would be worthy of another thread. It would it easier my me to compartmentlise and also I would like to hear what other people think. There is a lot going on in this thread and perhaps people might contribute to it more in its own context.

But then to be fair they might not, being honest, I am sure that I am not the only one who has thought, what if my empathy for him as an individual and an understanding of why he did what he did could even tacitly been percieved by you as reinforcing the justifications that you were expressing for taking your own life.

Those sorts of thoughts don't give me butterflies in my stomach it makes it do flipflops



Also have a few more thoughts on your post but writing isn't coming so easy, so rather than get frustrated with expressing myself I am going to let those thoughts settle into some order and post back later.

Um, well I may have been the only person who thought exactly that about the soliders story

I'm think though that others *might* have felt or feel the same in a similar sort of way.

Then thought if they wanted to comment that given the backdrop of this thread and it was a little 'loaded' to approach.

Thanks for your input Peanut. You don't need to worry about 'setting me off' now since I am stable now. But still I think it would be a good idea to put that into a separate thread. I do think this thread needs a bit of breaking up to make it more manageable. I'll try and get round to that this evening.

Peanut, I felt exactly the same as you about that soldier's note. We have many, many soldiers coming to our city who are maimed and/or traumatised by what has happened to them, or what they have seen or been made to do.

The family of that young man did at least have the comfort of the answer to 'WHY?' which is one of the biggest questions facing families. Through the ages soldiers have often not talked about their experiences so no-one understands.

Willem, you are doing a very good job of explaining how you are feeling but I hope you are stable enough now to know that there are many good reasons for living, you just need to find them.

I hope you do as Peanut suggests and consult regularly with your doctor. Maybe some adjustments in medication at times could help. You have to be brave and not too proud to ask for help, which is not easy. If you were here you would be monitored regularly.

Willem, I feel sure you are open and friendly, we have talked often enough, but the intensity on every subject is always there and many people cannot cope with such deep thinking.

Oh, and there are millions of people who put nothing back in to the world, just looking after No.1, but they still have a value. You must try and value yourself more. You have a lot to give and it is much appreciated.

Websailor

Hi again Websailor! I want to speak about this thing you and Peanut mention - 'your doctor'. I don't have a doctor. There is a medical centre here that has a bunch of doctors available to which I can go if I have a medical problem. But if you remember I was stuck without a car. So to go to a doctor I would have needed to ask a friend. But here in South Africa there is a serious stigma to suicide, it is a shameful thing, and I therefore have great difficulty telling a friend that I have a problem and fear I might be becoming suicidal. I have a problem with telling friends that I am mentally ill ... only two friends know about that and they're not always available.

But even if I have my car: it costs money to see a doctor. I can go to a doctor if I have an actual pressing problem ... but I don't know if I can go to a doctor to speak about my psychiatric condition in general.

Anyways - what do you suggest I do, if I always, even if trying to be relaxed and friendly, 'radiate' this aura of intensity that drives people off?

Willem, it is clear that we in the UK take our health service very much for granted. It is in deep trouble at present, financially and organisationally, but is a great deal better than what you have.

To go see one of those doctors, is it necessary to tell a friend what it is for, after all there are all sorts of medical conditions one would wish to keep private? Of course if payment is necessary then that is a problem.

I am not sure how to suggest you reduce the intensity of your feelings and views. I am afraid that this ability rather comes from the one thing you can't manage - social interaction on a big scale.

I have a friend with the same problem. He only has his own life and immediate family as a guide to what he should say or do. He has very few social skills and a great fear of people, in any more than a 'one to one' situation.

Breaking out of that mental prison is very difficult, as you will know, because people don't understand it.

It would be very easy for any of us here to say get out more, mix with people, relax and it will all come right, but that isn't the case is it?

I am sorry I am not being of much use, but it is very frustrating with you being in another totally different country. I can only say we are beginning to understand the scale of your problems and can only hope that is some comfort to you.

Websailor

Hi Willem

I don't think that you do always radiate an aura of intensity. I see a 'lighter side' to you as well on our conversation thread and I like to think both of us are conversationally skilled

How do you get your meds, who prescribes them to you?

I didn't mean who exactly as in a name, more how? Do you have to go to the clinic for an appointment to get them?

Hi again! Websailor, I think my friends will want to know why I need to go to the doctor. But anyways ... I have the car back now. Maybe I should try and find out about a psychiatrist ...

Isn't social interaction on a little scale all right? I have my art class, and apart from me not liking some of the stuff they say that I find to be prejudiced, it's not going too badly. I today also visited the art gallery that frames and *tries* to sell some of my art and had a nice chat with the guy who works there. Maybe I just should try and get out a bit more - even just talking to one or two or a few people at a time?

Peanut, my sister prescribes my meds for me, and I go collect them at a pharmacy in a shopping centre over here.