h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hi Two Bit

I just wanted to drop by to say that when I prod your opinion it is to to test it and to find out what you will say next.

I think that it is important that someone puts forward the views which you do in the way in which you do. I would describe them as 'conservative, American, patriotic and mildly hawkish' but I don't know if that is how you would describe them. You put them forward lucidly, patiently and well, and I don't think I have ever seen you lose your temper on site. Your opinions carry a lot of weight with me because you have thought them through, and they are based on your life experiences.

The demographic of the site - with a large number of students - means that a lot of the debate is intelligent but often emotional and based on information read rather than things seen, done and thought about. You counter-balance the debates, and it is good to see it.

Me - I think like a conservative and feel like a liberal; which is why I jump both ways. Rather a strange place to be.

I don't know if you ever feel like a lone voice crying in the wilderness; but even if you do - please keep posting!

All the best

a wooly-thinking liberal called Ben

I don't have to pump so much any more. I have a fully automatic M-16 in my livingroom.

I do feel like a lone voice every once in a while. I think it's unfortunate. I'm sort of in the juncture between moderates, libertarians and conservatives. I think the Guide suffers from a lack of conservative and libertarian views, especially since Coenel Sellers left. I'm only moedratly well informed, and I don't have time to look up stuff about many issues that are brought up on the board. The issue that comes to mind is the steel tariffs. I believe in free trade, and I'm opposed to subsidies and tariffs. However, the admisntration has some legitmate reasons for what it's doing. I think someone should answer complaints post on this site.

I'm not really pro-war. I don't think it's something to be feared. I believe that there are intolerable situations to which war may be the best course of action. I don't think we should seek it. When it is necisary, it should be as violent as possible. You rip the other mother f*****s heart out and feed it to him until he surrenders. That's the way you win with the least number of casualties on your side.

On occasion, I will employ some tricks on the site to make conversation. The one I suggested to Dogester when the Political Forum was faltering was to mkae a mildly outrageous statement, then when the responses start up, you respond in reasonable terms.

ANyway, I'm glad that there are freindly people around. I need to find the nicer side of the Guide sometime.

Hi Two Bit,
I totally agree with agcB. People like you who aren't afraid to intelligently express their opinions, no matter how unpopular they may be, help make h2g2 the wonderfully diverse place that it is. I totally agree with agcB. If we all had the same opinion, this thing we call 'democracy' would be extremely boring

Thanks

If we all had the same opinions, we wouldn't need democracy.

It is pretty nice when folks come by and say they appreciate a little diversity.

I am trying to work out why it is that when you say that you think the US is the best country in the world, I accept your right to your opinion, and when cM (for example) says it, it puts my hackles up.

I still have no clue why this might be. Odd, isn't it?

Anyway - I am looking forward to seeing you in the summer, and keep on posting in the mean time.

Ben

I think a lot of people are afraid to be proud of ther nation , or for themselves for that matter. I say it's okay to feel a certain way. My feelings abotu something aren't any less valuable than any one else's.

I think it's because your British. I get the sense that being proud isn't in fasion anymore in Europe. I say be proud. the UK is a hell of a place, in spite of the whether. If it wasn't for the British Empire where would we be today? The foundations of common law and right were the basis of the American revolution. The philosphy of the day, which was largely British led to the establishment of the US Constitution. That example of liberty has been the inspiration to the liebralization of the world's governments over the last two hundred years. England was key to spreading common law throughout the world. It held back the Nazis in WWII. Without the UK, half the world would be dominated by fascists or communists. Were there problems along the way? Yah, sure. Colonization was never all that pretty, but in the end things turne out pretty good.

But you weren't around for all that. So what. You're a aprt of your nation. If you weren't British, you wouldn't be who you are. You're a part of the UK. You help support the government by payng taxes, voting, talking to other people about how things could be better. You and your nation are tied together. Even if neither one is perfect, you're still linked.

It's okay to be proud.

Oh - we do a sort of self-deprecating modesty.

Actually, a German friend of mine pointed out that the reason we do the self-deprecating modesty is because at heart every English person *knows* deep in our deepest souls that we are the most superior and wonderful people on the face of the planet. "God was an Englishman" and all that. Not to mention: "The English, the English, the English are best - so up with the English and down with the rest!" (ssshhh - don't tell anyone I am posting this!)

Maybe what p**ses the English off about what they percieve as American arrogance is that despite us being (in our estimation at least) the most superior and wonderful yadda yadda yadda, and despite being all modest and self-deprecating about it, Americans have the bad taste to not believe it, in fact to believe they are the most yadda yadda, *and say so in public*!

Should I be proud of being British?

You put forward a persuasive argument Two Bit, I must say.

Take care, and, as I have said before, keep on pumping that trigger.

B

What do you know; a positive rant!

Yeah, it was very late and was very tired. I still find it odd that I accept and even respect your patriotism, though I challege the patriotism of some other Americans. I guess it is either a matter of prejudice (mine) or style (yours and theirs).

Anyways, I am still too tired to make much sense. Have a good weekend, two bit.

B

Not bloodly likely. I work during the weekend. Plus, I have to go car shopping with the wife.

See any nice cars, then?

B

Yup, I'll be posting about it in my journal shortly.

Sorry about the 'diddums' post - it was too good a comment to pass up, and I have very little self-control in some respects.

I actually take your point about the US being p****d off at the moment. But you guys are just so big, that you could upset the whole boat, which is what worries me.

Oh - and I am mightily irritated that it appears that Bush and Blair were right, and it could be done in a short war. Sore loser? Me?



B

I haven't read it yet. I'm thiking about avoiding arguements on the internet this weekend (for me today and tomorrow are the weekend). I have to get the brakes on my van fixed and Im thinking about playing Neverwinter Nights. Arguing can take up a lot of time.

There's a point at which power should be checked. As it stands now, there's nothing that can stand in the way of our military might except our self-restraint. That's just the way it is.

The military is very good at learning the past on the battlefield and in training. Most people don't appreciate what our military is capable of. A lot of people think that our combat forces are the stupid and ignorant culled from the inner city in racist recruiting drives. They think our officers are stiff necked war mongers. That is not the case at all. The combat arms attract a lot of intelligent motivated young men. The people with the lowest test scores go to toher fields. Our officers are all well educated both in terms of civilan and military education. The training is intense and realistic, and in many cases more challenging than real war.

In the latest campaign, we were very gentle. The restraint was far more than the Law of Land Warfare requires. I doubt we'll see the full conventional power of the United States brought to bear in the foreseeable future.

I guess that's not reassuring. I hope we're in a pause that will last for a long time. I think we are.

Actually it IS reassuring. To be honest, I trust the US military far more than I trust your government; and likewise I trust ours more than our government. The military are pragmatists and realists, and know what is meant by "attacked a heavily defended position" and all the other nice words people use. I trust the media least of all.

B

The military, especially the officer corps, is continually reminded of the civilian control of the military. It's ingrained in their character. Along with other traits, such as a reluctance to express strong poitical opinion. They take their oath to the Constitution very seriously. Of course, they have opinions, but they are bound to not express them publicly. I think this tends to shape them into moderate conservatives.

Enlisted men tend to be more conservative and more vocal. Then again, they're trained to fight. They haven't been to the formal fork and spoon schools that the officers have.

They have ways of making themselves heard without breaching their professional ethics. Stories come out about the generals being reluctant to engage in that which may not be named.

However, they are professional soldiers. When the commander-in-chief says do this, they do that. As long as the order is lawful on its face.

If something were to happen to the civilian leadership of the nation, I suspect that the military would restore order and try to get a civilian government in power in short order so that they wouldn't have to be in control.

Er, excuse me, but I've seen you post on different threads that for various reasons interest me, and I "followed" you to your space. Then I ran across this conversation and decided to have a say in the matter.

First of all, I agree completely with abcB; you have the integrity to stand for your views, and put them forth in a civilized manner. You are a welcome change in a sometimes far to uniform forum.
On the other hand, I tend to disagree with most of the things you say, but hey! That's life.
I get very tired with the new European sport of "America-bashing", it seems to me that educated people should try to have a less black-and-white view of the world than "Americans are stupid & evil".
On the other hand, I also would wish some of you Americans had a less black/white view of the world.
You say you define yourself as a cop. You are all for owning personal firearms. You think when push comes to shove, stick it to the other guy as hard as you can. To me, however, it gets more complicated than the "us against them", or if you will, "the good law-abiding citizen against the deranged criminal scum".

About your posting that we all should be proud of who we are... Okay, sure. But I don't think we should attribute too much weight to what our "proud ancestors" did. In one of your postings, for example, you encourage British pride by saying, and I quote:
"Without the UK, half the world would be dominated by fascists or communists."
Sure, right, but how about a present day German or Russian? Should they, by the same rationale, feel ashamed for what their country did way before they were born?

Also, your way of using the present state of the world to justify past actions seems a bit dubious, as for example:
"Yah, sure. Colonization was never all that pretty, but in the end things turne out pretty good."
Naturally no nation is morally unblemished, which maybe would be a good reason not to be too influenced by our history, and instead looking at where we can go from here.


With resect,
Largo

(Oh, and sorry for the long rant... Actually I just asked a rather pretty girl out for tonight [by SMS], and while nervously waiting for her to answer I had to get something else to think about. )

After a fairly long hiatus, I have returned. I changed computers, and it took me a while to get my passwords back in order. I've been sort of cool towards this site for a while anyway.

Just because I can appreciate the use of violence, it doesn't mean that I use it. I think my willingness to use it has kept me from needing it. In seven years in law enforcement, I've never used more than soft hands to subdue anyone.

Readiness to use force is what kept the US and the USSR from going at it. Both sides believed the other was ready for war. It kept the level of violence during the cold war pretty low.

I can take pride in the past while still acknowledging the problems. I think the US is a great country. I also think we've done some pretty raw unjustifiable things. Since I live in Georgia, I've seen and read quite a bit about the Trail of Tears, the expulsion of Cherokee Nation. That stuff is pretty terrible. In many ways, they were trying to be just like the American whites. They were just as violent and civilized as the Georgians down on the coast.

I'm sure there are things in any countries past that they should be able to be proud of, even if their past isn't perfect.

Good luck with the girl.