This is the Message Centre for Miao Hongzhi
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H2g2, and Computing in China
Miao Hongzhi Started conversation Jun 24, 2000
It only seems appropriate to look back over the past few days at h2g2. I want to be completely open about the fact that I am newcomer, an absolute novice, a mere babe in the woods here. That's also true about computer and cyber- things generally. But I am moving out of the shadows and into the electronic light. Warm, soothing, and best of all- freindly!
Without a doubt, everyone here has been helpful and freindly, and this is all very, very comforting- not to mention encouraging. So if you're a newbie like me, don't worry. H2g2 is a great place to learn and explore, share and discover. This is not a paid testimonial, just a natural result of my first encounter with an online community, and a very happy one at that, too.
It seems that there are plenty of Researchers out there with interest in things Chinese, things Japanese, things Asian...wonderful! Many Universities tend to shunt their Asian languages departments off to some corner (if they have one, that is) at the same time that interest is building. This is sad, not to mention very short-sighted, and something that stands to be corrected. Your sincere interst in these subjects is not only heartwarming, but also highly infectious!
So far people have stopped by with interests in Chinese language, movies, philosophy, poetry, history- all sorts of fascinating topics. Thanks to each and every one of you! Maybe a note about the place I am writing all of this from, is called for...an internet cafe called Fei1yu3 ("Flying Through Space"), just outside the Southwest Gate (Xi1 Nan2Menr2) of Beijing University.
While writing during the past few days, I have been interviewed twice by different television stations. Maybe the blond hair and blue eyes serve to drive a point home with pictures (better than my embarrassed Chinese, anyhow): China is reaching out to the world through the internet, and vice versa. One could also just say that China is going internet crazy these days!
Fei1yu3 itself is a good example. When I first came here in March of 1999, they only had 30 computers and the modems were slow, slow slow. I regularly wasted entire days trying to send and recieve email from friends and family. Things are (usually) much faster now. Now there are four Fei1Yu3 cafes on the same street, with a total of 500 computers. The owners expect to expand that to 1000 by the end of this year, and 2000 by the end of 2001. Nothing is done on a small scale in China!
On the city buses in Beijing, on the t.v., in the subways- everywhere are ads for the latest start-up or e-service, web page- you name it, it's here. Here, specifically, is Hai3Dian3 Qu1, the neighborhood around Bei3da4 (Beijing U.'s nickname). Another name for Hai3Dian3 is Gui1Gu4, "Sillicon Valley", since this is home to countless start-ups, electronics markets, and notoriously- bootlegged software.
(The volume is staggering, and one is constantly approached on the street by hawkers who lead potential customers down back alleys to buy the latest version of Chinese Windows for something like $1 US.)
The area is booming, and there is a palpable Wild-West feel to it all. Bei3da4 just completed building a towering electronics market this spring, and the Fourth Ring Road is being pushed through at a furious pace. Never in my life have I seen an entire nieghborhood reduced to rubble by sledgehammers, and in a period of just weeks!
Qing1Hua4 University is China's leading science university, and it is only a few minutes away. Recent graduates seem to be in great demand for their services. New buildings are going up all over, and the construction crews work aroung-the-clock, as a rule. Evreybody is busy, busy, busy!
All of this is in stark contrast to the days of the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution, but make no mistake, there are still limits to what you can do and where you can go on the internet. I'll steer away from politics as best I can, but I was here last May when the Chinese embassy in Yugoslavia was bombed. Some internet news sites have never been available since...
There is much to say about computing in China, to be sure. Overall, though, China is making huge strides in joining the online community, and I hope we will all be better for it. I just feel fortunate to be here at this time, and to participate in a very, very small way. The best way I know how to do that is to talk about it. Care to chat?
H2g2, and Computing in China
Asteroid Lil - Offstage Presence Posted Jun 24, 2000
Me again
I plead guilty to passing your researcher number round to my h2g2 friends, saying "A really interesting fellow has just joined, you must go introduce yourself"... And as long as you keep writing fascinating stuff like this I guarantee you will have no shortage of listeners. And correspondents.
When I worked in Corfu, I always remained hungry for the sight of the english alphabet and english text that I could read without having to involve my forebrain. Perhaps it's the same for you.
Where in time are you in relation to Greenwich Mean Time?
H2g2, and Computing in China
Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit Posted Jun 24, 2000
Honestly, Miao, I only came by to see what Lil was making a fuss about.
I would be interested to hear what you think about the political climate of the area, but in light of what you've said about internet censorship out there, perhaps it is in your best interests to remain silent. I visited Hong Kong myself, shortly after the transfer of power, and other than a bunch of pink orchid banners, I don't think anything about the place had been altered. I would be curious to know if Beijing's original "don't fix it, cuz it ain't broke" plan for governing Hong Kong was something they'd managed to stick to so far.
Colonel Sellers, always poking his face into someone else's controversies.
H2g2, and Computing in China
Asteroid Lil - Offstage Presence Posted Jun 24, 2000
And I would be interested to know the street reaction to the US finally voting "favored nation status" to China.
H2g2, and Computing in China
Miao Hongzhi Posted Jun 25, 2000
Hi, Lil!
Thanks for the messages and word-of-mouth advertising on my behalf, I am most grateful! To answer your questions, yes, I do crave contact with the English language, but it does have an effect on my forebrain: my tones go out the window! (For exapmle, it's Qing1Hua2 university- I have a bad tendency to mix my second and fourth tones when I'm tired , not being careful, or "code switching" between Chinese and English. Sigh.)
The reaction here to WTO was that it was seen as a national triumph, as well as a coup for JZM. All through the past year and a half, decidedly nationalist message has been propagated through every outlet imaginable. It isn't so much a message about dominating world affairs; it's more along the lines of China taking its rightful place among nations. It's really about respect or self-respect. This nation is tired of being "talked to", now it wants to be heard, listened to, consulted. How far this will all go is an open question. Once I have returned home (late July), I will speak more openly about these things.
One Chinese friend of mine reacted to WTO by immediately buying his own apartment. WTO might be good in the long run, but disruption and inflation might loom in the near future. It also seems to be no coincidence that a major campaign to develop Western China is underway- China's development is very uneven between East and West. (Try this test: name all the Chinese cities you know, off the top of your head. Then go to a map. Most likely, you have named cities on or near the eastern coast.) So Eastern city dwellers might see inflation in the short-term, and then lower prices in the long term.
The million-dollar question is this: how will WTO affect rural China (well above 80% of the total population)? How will small-holders compete against multi-national combines such as ADM? What will these people do, where will they go, who will feed them? While China makes bold statements about Taiwan, what's going on in the interior??
As for GMT, I don't know! We're ahead of you in the UK, but by how much, I am not sure. I am used to reckoning time in terms of the US, which puts me twelve hours ahead of Eastern Standard Time. By the way, China has only one official time: Beijing time, and it doesen't matter if you're actually thousands of miles to the west in a place like Urumuqi!
As for you- Corfu? I profess my ignorance- is that Greece? Turkey? Help! Were you studying there? I am interested to learn more about you and your work. I am very interested in philosophy, though most of it goes over my head. Still, I recognize its fundamental importance and appreciate its implications, therefore I find it attractive.
In fact, as I enter graduate school this September, I hope to sort through some of the major ideas of our time- post-structuralism and post-modernism among them. I am very, very interested in the implications of these ideas for the average person, and for my own life and work as well.
Confession time: I am a veteran of the "Rock Wars" (as I call the music scene) of Minneapolis, USA, in the late 80's to the mid 90's, and I have seen enough nihilism and cynicism to make my hair prematurely gray. Some friends didn't make it through alive, and I suppose instinctively I laid some of the blame on existentialism, modernism, and various forms of Bohemianism.
I know that can only be part of the reason, and I definetly do not want to be unfair. (So much of modern life, and art especially- is about attitude, and nothing else. None of these friends were interested in philosophy as such. Psychology is a much more profitable line of inquiry here.)
Anyway, I'm left standing, and I am still grappling with philosophical questions like this: As far as I know, existentialism is very good at describing the modern condition, but has little power for transcending it. Maybe I'm completely wrong in point of fact and in the whole tenor of my thinking. Any thoughts on this point?
At any rate, I'm not talking about China anymore! Sorry about that, I digress! Well, I hope you take that as a testimonial to an interest in your field. Thanks for the interesting questions and the (uninvited) opportunity to rant.
The thing for me to do now is to seek you and others out, as well as other forums more directly related to such issues. I am learning about how to have gremaine discussions, I promise!!
Take care,
Miao
H2g2, and Computing in China
Miao Hongzhi Posted Jun 25, 2000
Dear Colonel:
Thanks for the message and the questions! I just took a stroll over to your page, and to my immense delight I found that you are not only a devotee of Peter Sellers, but also Samuel Clemens. Amazingly good taste on both counts, I slaute you! I wish I had known you aver the Chinese New Year's break- I spent much of my time on the net reading Twain and stocking up on his maxims. By the way, is there any hope of you doing a "Mark Twain's Maxims" page? Oh, please.
Thanks for your sensitivity about overtly political things. Yes, there are limits here, and I'd rather wait until the end of July to get into the real nitty-gritty- at which point, please, fire away with your questions. Be as pointed and ornery as you like. By the way, did you know that Clemens campaigned for a diplomatic posting to Beijing? I think he was working in San Fransisco at the time, before his travels to the Sandwich Islands.
Hong Kong, 1997? I was in Tianjin that evening, and let's just say I wasn't given the key to the city or anything. Hmmm. As I say more on that later. Hands off policy? Sounds good on paper, but it doesn't play in the local press, and it doesn't seems to have a portable silver lining. We are all watching closely- so far, so good, but various adjustments have been made. Seemingly minor "adminstrative" and "technical" details, but who knows?
I like your style, Colonel; keep your wits about you and don't stop poking in on my controversies- or anyone else's, for that matter. By the way, if you like Clemens' written version of the English (American?) language, then you'd love Chinese- chock full of double negatives. But when you put two negatives together in Chinese, you get an affirmative! Ingenious. 'Ain't got nothin' on that!
Bye now,
Miao
H2g2, and Computing in China
Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit Posted Jun 25, 2000
Wow. I ask for a few statements, I get a dissertation. Good job, Lil... I like this dude.
I must say that your interpretation on my homepage was incorrect when you say that I am a devotee of Peter Sellers... it says that I am in fact ignorant of his work. I found out later that I am not completely ignorant of his work, that I have seen him in the Pink Panther movies, but I didn't much care for them. Sorry to disappoint.
If it makes you feel any better, I am a bigger devotee of Clemens than you can possibly imagine. He had some interesting things to say about China, as I recall, especially about the Christian missionary forays there, and wasn't too supportive of them. But I digress. Anyway, a page of his maxims would be tantamount to plagiarism, because he already has a pair of maxim collections, "Pudd'n'head Wilson's Calendar" I and II. As you may have guessed, the maxims were placed on a calendar, complete with illustrations by his favorite illustrator. Good stuff like "Man is the only animal that blushes. Or needs to."
Well, this should be a safe enough question... what are you talking about with the WTO? Lil's question was about the US granting most-favored-nation trading status has nothing to do with the WTO, and I'm not aware that the WTO had been active with China. So I guess what I'm asking is, what else has happened to favor Chinese trade? Our news tends to be a bit one sided, and I must admit to not having followed the press much lately.
H2g2, and Computing in China
Asteroid Lil - Offstage Presence Posted Jun 25, 2000
The Colonel's ignorance of Peter Seller's is a gaping hole in his otherwise highly esteemable character and admirable education. Perhaps he needs to see Dr. Strangelove again.
And Colonel, if Miao's answers seem to rival yours in completeness, consider what I alluded to in an earlier post on this or another thread; this man has a big English deficit and is probably very very hungry for converse in his native language.
H2g2, and Computing in China
Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit Posted Jun 25, 2000
See it again? You mean I've seen it before? Well, that does shed some light on something that was bothering me. I had a visit from From Distant Shores at my homepage, and he also commented on the Peter Sellers thing, and left me a URL for an article on Dr. Strangelove... in French. I can say without conceit that I was an exceptional language student, but after an 8 year hiatus, those two years of high school French just weren't up to the task.
Anyway, I suppose I might as well rent it tomorrow. Blockbuster is after my hide anyway, since I kept a couple of movies longer than necessary, and haven't paid the late charges. I might as well get something funny while I'm there. It'll help soothe the pain my psyche is going to suffer as I am forced to stammer and splutter out a lame excuse to a minimum-wage earner.
And I'm certainly not worried about a "rival in completeness"... I'm sure by now you've noticed my capacity to run on... and on... and on... I'm looking forward to conversations with another with that same tragic fault.
Colonel Sellers, permanent denizen of the "most erudite" list.
H2g2, and Computing in China
Asteroid Lil - Offstage Presence Posted Jun 25, 2000
If you have membership at an independent video store, look for "Mr. Death: The Rise and Fall of Fred Leuchter, Jr.", a documentary which is reviewed in my latest journal entry. I'm keen to hear other people's reactions.
H2g2, and Computing in China
Afgncaap5 Posted Jun 25, 2000
I'll look it up, Lil.
Hello, there. I'm another person who's showing up because of Lil's free advertising of your user page. Nice to meet you.
H2g2, and Computing in China
Miao Hongzhi Posted Jun 26, 2000
Dear Colonel (and Lil, for that matter)
WTO? MFN? Yes, I stand guilty as charged, and I won't bother to offer an alibi except to say that I have been (rather happily) acronym-free for quite some time. But even I will admit that I'm stretching there. Simply jumped on a hot topic- only it was the wrong one. Is there an egg-on-face smiley? Thanks for being so forgiving, so understanding. English-starved student present and accounted for!
Well, I'll just mutter about MFN here, if that's all right. Essentially, the reaction here was the same as to WTO- this is yet another sign that China is finally getting its due. What of the Americans?
I seem to recall- I think it was J.P. Morgan or some other pillar of virtue who once said something probably meant to be pithy and insightful along the lines of: "If we can just teach the Chinaman to wear a shirt, think of the profits to be had." I am paraphrasing, but it's pretty close. This statement reveals much about American attitudes towards China, and in essence this is a classic statement of the eternal dream of the "China Market". This can expressed as an equation:
Widget y at price z multiplied by 1.2 Billion= $ (the profits to be had)
If in place of the $ part you substitute hard-to-define (but catchy) phrases like "national interest" and so forth, then this equation can also be applied readily to foreign policy, environmental policy, ad infinatum. Sadly, Clemens himself could have written this formula himself, and probably did in one form or another. Attitudes have changes so little in all this time. Silly me, I think it's *at least worth asking what the Chinese themselves want* from foreign investors, foreign companies...why does the word "carpetbagging" keep appearing in my mind??? Who cares about these people? Only one-fourth of humanity, pish-posh?
Right, MFN. The Chinese are happy, very happy. Satisfied, too- most Chinese I know feel that they have been slagged, slighted and in inummerable ways wronged by the USA and other Western Powers since anyone can remember. And the thing of it is, they're right; a famous example is the "containment policy" of the Cold War. This was only undone by Nixon, of course (well, at least towards China). Poor China, we give them Nixon as an American hero to the Chinese people. We do need to make amends.
There are, in short, deep wounds just below the surface here. National pride is everything here, and the best example I can think of is the most common way to refer to China. It is: "Wo3 Guo2", literally "My Country". The technically correct "Zhong1 Guo2" (lit. "Middle Kingdom") is only slightly less popular. But don't worry about nationalist fervor getting out of control; everything is very carefully planned and timed, er, ...everything is just fine. (1, 2, 3...Smlies, everyone!)
As with WTO, the thing to watch is the way rural and urban China respond. Who makes out like a bandit, and who gets the sack? Just a hunch, but maybe the agricultural, mining, and steel sectors won't do so well. But to sum up, everyone is officially happy.
As far as Clemens and American Missionaries, I have an intersting tale about that. My (paternal) Great-great-grandfather Hunter was a Presbyterian missionary who left Pennsylvania, USA for Zhifu, Shandong, China in 1863. Even better (for the storyteller), he left on the day the Battle of Gettysburg began. Even better still, as he and his wife reached the coast of Shandong, they were shipwrecked.
Anyhow, old Hunter went on to live, preach, teach, and otherwise save Chinese souls until his death in 1920. His son Charles was born in China, and his son (my grandfather) was raised in the Amelican Legation. Charles went on to become a founder (and a professor of Physics) of Yanjing University, part of what is now Beijing University, where I am currently studying. Thankfully for the Chinese (and for me), Charles had the foresight to get out of the way and let the Chinese run the show themselves. That was in 1926.
One of the reasons I can here was to come to terms with of this. As far as I know, Hunter was a real fire-and-brimstone type, though (it seems), less condescending than his contemporaries. A little, but not much consolation there. Charles seems to have been much more enlightened, thankfully. Anyhow, if everything goes according to plan, I will go to Yantai (where Hunter was buried) this weekend. I have many, many more stories related to my immediate family, as well as the Chinese branch, too.
OK, I'll try to compact these dissertations and geneaologies a bit. Lil is right, I am looking for opportunities to use my English, chat, ramble, discuss, etc. Feel free to digress as much as you like; I'll try to reign myself in a bit. Until I return home, that is.
Bye now,
Miao
I can't recommend Sellers highly enough; glad you're looking into his work. You are right about the maxims as well; better to read for oneself and then translate that experience into your own thoughts and actions. Nobody needs to ape the man, God forbid.
He was fairly explicit about the value of thinking for oneself, and its comparative rarity as well.
H2g2, and Computing in China
Miao Hongzhi Posted Jun 26, 2000
Dear Captain:
Thanks for stopping by; I took a quick glance at your page and saw the link for unwritten Guide entries- must-read for me£¡ I'm in a bit of a rush right now, but I hope to chat again soon. Please feel free to stop by as often as you like.
Take care,
Miao
H2g2, and Computing in China
Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit Posted Jun 26, 2000
Thanks for clearing up that misunderstanding.
US reaction to MFN is somewhat mixed. On the positive side, there are the profits to be made, as you said, and it can only be good for the economy, and thus the nation as a whole. On the negative side, however, it shows a glaring inconsistency of national policy. It has long been the policy of the US to limit or cut trade altogether with countries with poor human rights records, and to urge other developed countries to join them in this. Human rights records don't get much worse than China's.
I do support the initiative, however, for entirely different reasons. When trade is free, so is the flow of ideas. We have much to learn from the Chinese people, but they also have much to learn from us. Western philosophy will slip in despite the best efforts of the Chinese censors. To use their own terminology, they will be combating against an historical dialectic. A change in the power structure of China may be due in the next generation as a result. I think this is a very necessary course of action, too, because I see a lot of parallels between certain recent acts of China and the acts of the USSR under their communist regime. Make no mistake, the Chinese are girding themselves for war. Last time, the US was willing to rattle their swords for 50 years to keep the Soviets in check... this time, the sword is a little duller, and it looks like the people have gotten tired of all the racket. Besides, how does that old saw go? "Kill 250 million Americans, and there aren't any left. Kill 250 million Chinese, and they'll thank you."
So anyway, I support anything that may work for change in China. It's only when they manage to provide themselves with a free society that they'll be able to truly "take their rightful place among nations."
H2g2, and Computing in China
Asteroid Lil - Offstage Presence Posted Jun 26, 2000
I can't resist posting immediately, although I'll be back later with a URL to a website concerning Mark Twain and his anti-Imperialist League. This site has the entire text of Twain's most wonderful political essay "To the Person Sitting in Darkness" which was inspired by the aftermath of the Boxer Rebellion. But perhaps you've read it. Given your fascinating family tree, you'll find it particularly trenchant. I came to learn about the Anti-Imperialist League when I was studying the war between America and the Philippines.
As regards the foreign policy of the United States, I do agree with your assessment of popular thinking, where there is any. Now, this is my PERSONAL political opinion, but I don't think the US is going to have a coherent and progressive foreign policy until we somehow divest ourselves of Senator Jesse Helms as chairman of the Senate Committee for Foreign Relations. Helms holds this position solely because of his seniority of service, not because of any experience in his record. He is representative of the old-guard way of thinking, namely, that other nations ought to be brought round to the American way of looking at things before we do them any favours. The results of this stiff-neckedness for post-Gorbachev Russia are plain to see.
May Senator Helms have a long and honorable retirement and may he have it as soon as possible!
H2g2, and Computing in China
Miao Hongzhi Posted Jun 26, 2000
Dear Lil:
Finals time is here, and so am I, using the word processor to write up the final batch of essays. This might be a rare chance to chat in real time; I'll check back and forth between edits.
Thanks again for the support; I am hungry for conversation- stimulating at that- and you have more than amply provided. Thank you! Also we might say that we're conducting an experiment in "Chat from China". When I came here last March, MIRC was only a daydream, but now it's here (though where does it go?)
Thanks also for the incoming link; Twain can never be oversupplied here! (I feel for the poor translator assigned the task of rendering _Hucckleberry Finn_ into Mandarin.)
Family tree? I'd love to hear of yours. As far as my family tree goes, there's a British (or should I say French) connection. The furthest back anyone has gone is to find an ancestor who was a knight in the employ of Guilliaume le Conquerant. Yes, that Willaim. Anyhow, legend has it that he was rewarded for his service with a feif conveniently located on the Welsh...what should I say? "Frontier"??
Anyhow, the family quickly fell into disrepute, became synonymous with sheep stealing, moved towards Scotland, and then "one of ours" eloped with a certain Lady Ross. The couple came to the Colonies in the 1760's. After the war, the Lady's father forgave all and joined them in the newly formed USA. In Hackensack, New Jersy!!!
(I must emphasize at this point that I do hold a degree in history.)
Yes, strange as it is, it is all true. What it says about me, I can only wonder. And worry. (I will post a reply to the Colonel reagarding a colorful ancestor in volved in the "War Between the States"- if you're interested.)
As for the, ahem, "distinguished Gentleman from North Carolina" (I really must insist on that distinction), I agree with you whole- heartedly. I've mentioned before that my fiancee is Japanese. She is- you guessed it - a strong critic of U.S. foreign policy, and (coincidentally?) used to work for a U.N. NGO in Tokyo.
I've tried my best to explain to her who the "Distinguished" (by what, I ask?) Gentleman is and what he does, but so far to no avail. In a word, inexplicable. Inexcusable, too. Sen. Helms should excuse himself. Or take up smoking. He should go gracefully, but he doesn't have it in him.
As to "The Person Sitting I Darkness", I applaud you. Three cheers! When I go to Chicago this fall, I want to study with Bruce Cummings, an East Asian historian and professor of Political Economy- specializing in U.S.-East-Asian relationships (especially Korea; I am very, very excited).
Anyhow, he has identified a particular(ly) American shortcoming when it comes to foreign policy. Basically, the "charge in and dictate things" attitude that somehow sees the American culture (or agenda) as "value free"- basically "morally right" and not open to question. There's a link to the missionary tradition!
Well, another tangent. (Pause to reflect) I am very grateful to you-all of you- for keeping me company while I finish up things in China. In a very, very short time, you have become an important link to the outside world of ideas and friendship. Hard to quantify- I have lots of friends here, but it's just...different, and notoriously difficult to define. At any rate, I am grateful.
When I am in situ at Chicago this September, I hope to be able to communicate with you all on a more timely basis. Hopefully, too, subjects of discussion will shift to more "fun" things. And I promise to seek you out for a "Tall Americano"- on ice.
Bye now,
Miao
H2g2, and Computing in China
Asteroid Lil - Offstage Presence Posted Jun 26, 2000
http://www.boondocksnet.com --
I trust you to drill down and find all sorts of goodies including the essay I mentioned earlier. Must get off - surrounded by lightning!
H2g2, and Computing in China
Miao Hongzhi Posted Jun 26, 2000
Colonel:
You are a provocatuer! I salute you. well, let's see how far we can take this thing.
Sure, the East (generally) has a lot to learn from the West. And vice versa. I seriously question the notion that western business concerns somehow carry with them "democratic" (or "democratizing") influences, however. I hope I'm wrong about this one, believe me.
At any rate, I can still remember a time when the internet poromised all that is good and glorious to China. Yes, I am here, still writing, but how long will it take. Honestly, this is an ethical decision for me- I don't want to spoil the party for future Chinese contributors. Either way, how many Chinese contributors does the Guide (or any other foreign forum) have? Just a question.
I hate to keep you in suspense, and I feel like something of a charlatan when I say that I will discuss things in detail later, but I really do think that's best. On the other hand, you have some points; serious errors have been made here. Officially, (just in case you're keeping score) is that Mao2 Ze2Dong1 was 70% correct and 30% "other". Things need to change. But I digress.
As for human rights contradictions, what else is there? (I will *not* make the obvious one-liner joke here.) China and Cuba, that's what I have to say on the subject. Monroe Doctrine? Hmmm? How else could the USA have wound up with the Phillipines? I hate to do this, but I must quote a song lyric, and a Prince song,at that. "Something in the water does not compute."
Colonel, I understand your point of view. Things are not what they used to be, in many senses. On the other hand- from the foreign point of view- the USA has many, many credibility problems.
As for the 250 million, I recall an exchange between Deng Xiaoping and Jimmy Carter. When Deng visited the USA in 1979, Carter pressured him on the human rights issue of freedom of immigration. Carter said, basically, "open up your doors". Deng replied: "Fine, what do you want, 100 or 200 million Chinese immigrants?"
Enough of the ponderous stuff. Here is a story -gratis- ,and like free advice, take it at your own risk. (This is for Lil as well.)
I am related and share the same family name (now you know who I am) with the man who killed John Wilkes Booth, Boston Corbett- a seargent in the Union Army. Boston was an interesting character, to say the least. Apparently (before he specaialized in jailbreaks in Kansas), uh, apparently before the war, he was walking through a certain district in New York City. Apparently, he saw certain women and was, ahem, "tempted".
Being the man that he was (certainly pious), Boston resolved and (I apologize in advance) took matters into his own hands and--- castrated himself with his buck knife. Honestly, this is no joke. You can look him up on the net, someone has posted a page on him, as well as Hunter (the one I've seen is in Chinese). And you wondered why someone would be so trigger happy in such a serious situation as the Booth affair. (Sorry, sorry, sorry- I'll be good from now on.)
Allright, you say- interesting story. But there's more. I am also (admittedly indirectly) related to- you guessed it- John Wilkes Booth. No joke here either, I'd rather not prove this connection, but it's there all the same. My Step-Aunt (what does one say) married a Booth- on of *the* Booths, and they are directly related.
Well, there you go- "What's in a name", indeed? Mixed bag of nuts. I'll emphasize- purely for my own sake- that I don't yet know what's proper and improper to disclose in this kind of forum. A cop-out.
Enough, I have to write an essay in Chinese on the meaning of friendship. Take care, and I hope you'll stop by often.
Bye now,
Miao
H2g2, and Computing in China
Miao Hongzhi Posted Jun 26, 2000
Dear Lil:
Thanks for the link! If you're still there, the timje in Beijing is now 1:15 AM. Now you can figure GMT from that.
Take care,
Miao
H2g2, and Computing in China
Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit Posted Jun 26, 2000
Agent provacateur, iconoclast, asshole... call me what you will.
No, I don't think that a sudden influx of Levis into the local population is going to have any sort of palpable influence. Historically, free trade has opened up borders to the exchange of ideas. In the old days, it was because traders were an important source of news, and so their stories were heard by all the laymen with great interest, tales of foreign lands and foreign peoples were even more spellbinding than more local fare. With the promotion of literacy, printed media was disseminated among populations just as much as, say, spices and rum.
Today's climate is even more conducive to the exchange of ideas. Two very powerful media are available, and the Chinese are very interested in both of them. First is the cinema. Hollywood is drooling over the opportunity to expand into the Chinese market, and China is just as enthusiastic. Movies are excellent ways to disseminate ideas and philosophys in a very subtle way. Ever see Braveheart? Okay, maybe that one wasn't so subtle, but you get my point. And remember during the Red Scare in the '50's, Hollywood screenwriters went on the chopping block because they were allegedly trying to subvert democracy. I know that most of the charges were spurious, but it may surprise you to learn that many screenwriters with communist tendencies were doing exactly that.
Media number 2, and even more important, is the thing you're reading this on right now. China is anxious to get into information technologies, and the Internet is foremost among them right now. There is absolutely no way that the party can monitor and patrol this thing, though... it is too big, too chaotic, and too complicated. Chinese people are going to interact with Westerners in much the same way we are doing now, at least those who speak English. And remember there are plenty of Westerners who speak Chinese. Ideas will be exchanged. Then the Chinese will get ideas of their own. However the whole thing unfolds, I think that China will eventually end up being able to take their place as a great nation among nations. But right now, the world's oldest culture still has some maturing to do.
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H2g2, and Computing in China
- 1: Miao Hongzhi (Jun 24, 2000)
- 2: Asteroid Lil - Offstage Presence (Jun 24, 2000)
- 3: Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit (Jun 24, 2000)
- 4: Asteroid Lil - Offstage Presence (Jun 24, 2000)
- 5: Miao Hongzhi (Jun 25, 2000)
- 6: Miao Hongzhi (Jun 25, 2000)
- 7: Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit (Jun 25, 2000)
- 8: Asteroid Lil - Offstage Presence (Jun 25, 2000)
- 9: Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit (Jun 25, 2000)
- 10: Asteroid Lil - Offstage Presence (Jun 25, 2000)
- 11: Afgncaap5 (Jun 25, 2000)
- 12: Miao Hongzhi (Jun 26, 2000)
- 13: Miao Hongzhi (Jun 26, 2000)
- 14: Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit (Jun 26, 2000)
- 15: Asteroid Lil - Offstage Presence (Jun 26, 2000)
- 16: Miao Hongzhi (Jun 26, 2000)
- 17: Asteroid Lil - Offstage Presence (Jun 26, 2000)
- 18: Miao Hongzhi (Jun 26, 2000)
- 19: Miao Hongzhi (Jun 26, 2000)
- 20: Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit (Jun 26, 2000)
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