h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

There is an article in the Guardian about a female policeofficer's claim (and win) of Sexual Harassment against the Sussex force. She has been awarded record damages.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jun/18/barbara-lynford-tribunal-sexism-award

This bit particularly stands out for me:

"This case highlights the plight of many women working in male-dominated professions. Too often sexual harassment and bullying is passed off as acceptable 'banter'. The judgment underlines how important it is for employers to deal properly and promptly with
discriminatory behaviour."

Having been a woman working in a man's world for just about all my working life, I can appreciate what happened to her. And since I wasn't there I can't comment on the particulars.

I do know that during my Army time in particular, we ladies were subject to treatment that even now horrifies me. The difference being that there were of us who did suck it up - didn't give encouragement to any of the guys or otherwise indicate that it was acceptable, while not complaining officially about any of it.

Those were the ones of us who generally were good at our jobs, got on and the men usually treated us less harshly than some of the others. That was all 20 years ago.

But it really does beggar belief that it still goes on. And sex discrimination in particular is a very popular topic of conversation in our office when I'm often accused of being a Feminist (as though that is a bad thing) when what I believe is that I support Equal Opportunity (I'm all for paternity leave and men staying home o look after sick children or elderly relatives if their wife/partner doesn't find it convenient at that time)

Just my

I'm a feminist too!

I think the word feminist has too many anti-man connotations these days so I prefer to call myself an Equalist.

The guys at work find it totally acceptable, for example, for two people to be doing the same job but for the one with the external genetalia to be paid 10 or even 20% more than the other.

I'm not so worried about fighting for myself (since I am, actually and rightly) the highest paid person at my level in the office. But that's not based on Gender but experience and time of service. I do worry about the future though and if the Gruesomes will still be fighting the same battles.

Although things are getting better it really is a case of slowly slowly catchee monkey.

I heard it on the radio the other day that women generally earn about 23% less than men for the same work. You'd think this should be suable, but then it's probably hard to prove, as wages aren't openly discussed here.

The mind boggles. Women being paid less for the same job It sounds like when the world was still in black and white!

There's an equal pay settlement in the NI civil service that's just being settled, which recognises that women at lower grades were paid at a lower rate than men at similar grades. It's costing millions, and I know one woman in my office is receiving £13k in the agreed settlement pay. Steps are being taken to make things better, thank goodness. I'm the highest paid female in my place, and it was between me and a male at the same grade (and as far as I know on the same pay scale) who got the job of acting chief.

In Germany we have an equal pay day, this year it was the 26th of March - the day when women had earned the same amount of money as men did till the 31st December 2009.....

the problem is, that besides paying less for same job and same job description, which you can fight if you know about it, a lot of companies use a trick and give different job descriptions and with that explain the difference in wages...

I guess the problem here is, that secretly, politicians of all colours want women to stay at home and raise kids. It doesn't occur to them that this is is not possible if you have kids, because they keep raising the taxes, vat, and generally do their damnedest to help themselves to the money families have because they don't dare to get it from the rich people. It gets more and more difficult and unattractive to have children.

I still call myself a feminist, but I realise how lucky I was that I had equal pay as a university lecturer.
Don't let unequal pay go by. Always comment on it, and if there are legal safeguards, complain officially.
But let a few quips go if you really don't mind them. However, I have always corrected 'girl' to woman if it was being applied to me - or deliberately referred to older men as 'boys'

Yes, it beggars belief that it still goes on. What is the best way to change it? To ensure that everyone who does the same role is paid the same wage?

When I was a cabbie, I earned the same as everyone else, cos we were all on meters! But yes, I did have to put up with some lewd comments from some of the men. Not quite the same thing, but get a gang of men together and they turn into teenage boys. Even customers would comment, especially on the way home from the nightclub 'you're really lovely' best looking cabbie I've ever seen.

I think they don't realise what they are saying.

What an interesting thread.

For as long as I have been working in the adult world = and in a way competing sports wise in the adult world, I have been a "second class citizen."

It started at home - my sister and I were really disdriminated against in the affection which my parents gave to us and the subsequent boys born into the family. This started with the very feeble anit-feminist joke from my Papa which went as follows,
"If our next child is a daughter I will give you a bicycle. However if our next child is a son I will give you a car".


Everyone burst into gales of laughter but the unknown fact that it is indeed the male in the union who determines the gender of the unforn infant was quite unrecognised,although nowadays it is recognised.

I could go on and on and on......... with the comparisons.

However, it did spur me on , so when I was in a position to plan for myself, When divorce hit me in the face I deicided to go to Univresity at the age of 44 and eventually gained my Masters degree, instead of remaining a humble though very useful radiographer and swimming instructor.

But divorce settlements are also biased. Although I have worked all my adult life I still have never owned a property. Initially I was not allowed to have a bank account of my own and all my earnings had to go into my husband's account. That was a legal requrement in the best British (which Rhodesia accepted) tradoton.

However, as I have never had any aspirations to being a General |Manger, or head any corporation I have never let it unduly worry me !!

courage all my brave enterprising friends of the female gender/

Christiane - still fighting for gender rights....
AlsoRan80
Sunday 20th June, 2010 8.49 BST

Interesting input - especially from the young men among you - it is from people like you that change will eventually come.

Also really interesting to hear from Wandrin'Star and Christiane because they really were the pioneers that I admire so much. It's difficult now, I really can't imagine how much you had to push to get what you deserved.

Bea - very good progress being made there and it's great to see it.

As for comments - I really don't know how you put up with the comments, Mina. I'd have been a terrible cabbie because I just can't let things like that go.

For me - I never ever let myself be referred to as a girl. I recently read an interesting book entitled Why Nice Girls Don't Get the Corner Office. It had some good tips in there for making sure, for instance, that you don't dress and act like a girl and not giving people the opportunity to use it against you.

Same pay for same w*rk has been the law here in Denmark for many years, but in general women still earn less because fewer of them sit in the aforementioned corner offices

Some of them don't want to and you can't force them but we still have a long way to go anyway

For decades since 1945 my paper had the first female editor-in-chief and today two out of five junior bosses are female

And I am proud to add that my female co-w*rker earns more than I do

As for clothing I think people should dress how they like

I wouldn't want every business woman feeling she has to wear power suits like Hillary Clinton

What would that lead to? Back to the Victorian age? Burka? Niqab?

The book does suggest that you dress for the job you want rather than the job you have. And to be honest (unless it's the company party that day when I wear Jeans and Chucks) I never go the whole hog on a dress down friday and wear very casual clothes.

On the other hand, I am an old biddy now...

Websailor

watch it girlie, what does at remark like that make me?

nah, i'm just kidding, I could never be mad at you

seriously though: if males are allowed to dress up in armani like george clooney why shouldn't females dress like [insert branded goods & actress of your choice]?

If a woman wants to be taken seriously at work:
1)don't let your hair go grey
2)don't ever have bare legs or bare shoulders
3)don't have visible underwear
4)don't smell
5)don't make or go out and buy the coffee unless men at the same level do the same

Fight for equality:
I have always fought against being addressed by my christian name, but in my last job it was policy for the men in our department to be called by their christian names also. (I felt we didn't get the same respect as profs in other departments, but, as I say, it was policy)
If you are doing a scale job, make sure from the outset that your terms and conditions are the same as a man on the same scale. Don't sign a contract until you've made sure of this.
If you are sick, take sick leave and be grateful that you are in a country where this is possible. It's not clever to cut short your maternity leave either. (I went back to work three weeks after a caesarian, but that was 38 years ago in a country with no maternity leave and where I had help with the housework.)