h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Thank you Rev. JR

I really do not know. !!

Probably try and talk him out of it.!!
Knowing me - "How NOT to win friends and influence people"

CME

AR80

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/jeremy_clarkson/article5113220.ece

Ahhh! the Clarkson........................ seems to be on good form

I certainly understand your feelings about people chisleing away at wilderness preserves (they used to call that 'cheese paring') in the American organizational politics, a phrase more recently supplanted, sometimes, by 'salami slicing'.

Of course, if I had my way, I'd take Yosemite away from the tourists, give it back to nature, perhaps only opening to the public alternate leap years, for carefully supervised day tours with lodgings provided outside the park. (I am not the first to suggest this.)

Meanwhile, entering the 21st century species extinction bottleneck, thinking against long term needs of the age of space colonialism upcoming, important to remember that the Earth is only source for biodiversity compatible with our own biochemistry the species will ever have.

Yet again, issues of the 'clear cutting' controversy of the timber country of the American Northwest have to do with an insane excess of 'compulsive tidiness' resulting in a systematic destruction of forest floor infrastructure that threatens to leave the forests of the Northwest as sterile as Germany's Black Forest, a conversion to a monoculture with all the hazards of it, taken against long term (centuries to come) biodiversity values, about on a par with throwing bundles of money into a fire.

All isn't lost yet on the dune country you are concerned about. Is any provision being made to incorporate the wildlife into the development and sustain it over the long term?

Hi folks! This issue about forest biodiversity is an interesting one to me. I've encountered so many people who cannot tell the difference between a tree 'monoculture' and a pristine true forest. Here in South Africa we have *hundreds* of forest tree species (plus more hundreds of species growing in savannah and other habitats) so right off the bat people in a natural forest ought to realise there's more than one tree species in it. Apart from that there are more hundreds of sub-shrub species, herbaceous plants, creepers and lianes, and even ferns and mosses, in a 'real' forest. Plus the animal creatures that live in and around them: slugs and snails, millipedes, centipedes, spiders, insects, amphibians, lizards and snakes, birds, mammals ... in short: a 'real' forest is a complex, dynamic but balanced, complete ecosystem. The world as a whole functions as numerous different kinds of complete, complex ecosystems, functioning as an integrated whole. Of which overall biodiversity is an extremely important aspect.

Hyp and Christiane, this town that cannot be mentioned - isn't there a bit of a hitch in this plan ?

I love 'chicken dinner winner'. Never heard it before - where does it come from? It's brilliant. Will use it on the boss at earlist opportunity.

Rev Jack - A, B C and D, in that order.

SWL, _thank you_ for the link. You tell 'em Jez, not that I wholly agree with all of it.

ITIWBS, yes. But it won't make up for the geological/eco-system interest, and the report itself aknowledges that relocating the species concerned is unlikely to have a high success rate. I agree re tidyness. And re-creating habitats once they're gone is a very complicated thing. Far more to it than planting a few trees. As Willem says, with so many interdependent species making a balanced whole, even if you recreate all the right conditions there's no guarantee the wildlife you want will colonise. Destroying them needlessly just makes me .

Hyp and Christiane, this town that cannot be mentioned - isn't there a bit of a hitch in this plan?

Waz, if we want to invite a slew of folks, then it is going to slow things down not to tell them where to meet us. The actual location of my b'day party has yet to be determined. If we decide to have it in the town that can't be mentioned, we'll have to send out e-mails with the pertinent information. I'll be going to the town that can't be mentioned anyway, but it may not be for my b'day. I'm pretty sure I'll also be going to Scotland this trip.

Calling someone a "chicken dinner winner" is a hillbilly/midwestern way of insulting them. It is used for people who are somehow lacking, whether in intelligence or morals or whatever. In Trump's case it is because he is so greedy and unethical - his personal interests are all that count with him.

Dearest LLWaz

The town that cannot be mentioned is my hometown now!!

Poor Hyp got so tired of my saying how wonderful it was that she started calling it the town that should NOT be mentioned.!!

I believe the birthday party will still be in the large, very large town that cannot be mentioned.

Everything is still on as far as I know.

I think that we should actually try and get one another's telephone numbers.

Well, I have had quite a day trying to tidy my flat before my granddaughter plus my two great grandaughters come on Friday.

With much affection

Christiane
Also Ran80

I thought we weren't mentioning the name of your hometown, Christiane, because we don't want it overrun with tourists.

The b'day party may be in London or it may not. Since there is a London meet the following Saturday, I find it unlikely that anyone other than my actual friends will be interested in my birthday, which is on a Wednesday. The hootooers who don't really know me and who are available to go to London that week will go to the general meet on Saturday. Anyway, things are in the early planning stage. A day at the seaside is on a short list of possibilities along with climbing Glastonbury Tor, taking the train to Paris for the day and having a picnic at the London zoo followed by one of the London Walks and a nightcap at a pub. It will be fun no matter what we do.

The problem with low success rates with relocation efforts and the difficulty of re-creating a natural ecosystem once its been seriously disrupted or destroyed is precisely why I raised the question on maintaining wildlife on site. There is precedent for efforts like that.

The Nature Conservancy,

http://www.nature.org/
The Nature Conservancy - Protecting Nature, Preserving Life,

regularly works with efforts like that, often getting private land owners substantial tax breaks for maintaining natural habitat. For example,

http://www.amigosdebolsachica.org/links.htm
Amigos Links

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Bolsa_Chica_State_Ecological_Reserve
Bolsa Chica State Ecological Reserve - Facts, Encyclopedia article, and Discussion forum

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/brunel/AddThread?inreplyto=71491791
BBC - h2g2 - Post to a Conversation,

Bolsa Chica was once a natural lagoon, then an industrial wasteland after extensive petrochemical exploration, then finally restored.

>>>It was discovered during the restoration process thet there was an inconspicuous species of wading shorebird actually nesting on the beach at the limit between Bolsa Chica State Beach and Huntington State Beach. Response was to erect a chain link fence around their nesting area and install bird shelters for the birds inside it.<<< ...in this case, preserving a natural environment that had escaped industrial devastation.

With respect to Donald Trump's planned development couldn't critical nesting, feeding and shelter areas to be incorporated into the Golf Course be placed off limits to golfers with suitable physical and psychological barriers installed, a 'rough' or 'hazard' area where retrieving the ball is not allowed, the golfers playing around the critical bird areas? Other supports for the wildlife provided as needed?

Trumpo's critical nesting area, his mellon, one must hope for a light gale................. to help the critical nesting area...........

Waz,

You might like to listen to BBC Radio 4 on 'Listen Again' The programme this last week on 'World on the Move' was talking about the Trump development. It starts about Whale Sharks, but soon moves on to Trump! It was most interesting. There are Podcasts too.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/progs/listenagain.shtml

it is the first time I have heard a full rundown of the whole development. It beggars belief

Websailor

Rev Jack, I hope for a nine day storm of the kind that buried Forvie village (just north) in sand. It's still buried, can't see any of it other than the Church.

Websailor and ITIWBS, thanks for links. I haven't been able to follow up on them yet but will over the weekend. I've been going on working parties on Prees Heath nearby where Butterfly Conservation are attempting to recreate ancient heath. It's complicated alright.

Waz, how far is Prees Heath from you? I've been wanting to create a butterfly garden in my back yard. I just never get around to it.

About a mile. Well the butterfly section is, the nearest part is just half a mile. They cut the trees down in the village when it was an airfield in WWII because they got in the way of the bombers.

There's supposed to be a work party tomorrow to plant more trees and chuck heather-brash about but the forecast is not to get above zero all day - no good for planting - and for mist not to lift all day. Which will at least be atmospheric.

I went to a barn dance years ago in one of the old hangars on the heath on a misty night - the mist was about four foot deep. Weird, you could see everyne from chest up outside. Inside was clearer but mist wreathed around the place which was far too big to light properly and full of shadows.

PS I grow an extensive patch of nettles for butterflies

I did manage to plant some milk weed for the monarchs.