h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

what do you mormons have to say about the fact that in the book of revalations god states that he will not send any prophets or angels or anything of the like untill judgement day. so if you belive in the bible how can you deny this piece of scripture in order to belive in joseph smith.

Where does it say that, flame' I tried to find the place but couldnät find it.

...Or are you just passing it on by word of mouth? If so, the word gullible comes to mind...

Hello! I'm not Mormon, so I can't really answer your question, but I'm curious about what part of the Book of Revelations you would interpret to mean that there will no new prophets until the end of time. After a very superficial perusal of the book, I only can think of the end, where the author warns not to add or subtract anything from what has been written. If this is what you are referring to, wouldn't it be perfectly possible for new prophets to arise in other contexts? As I said, I have not studied the book in any depth, so I'm definitely not offering any kind of definitve answer here... however, with Revelations, I think it is wise to keep in mind the highly symbolic nature of the writing before making any judgements as to what it means. Let me know what you think! (Anything to distract me from my homework)

i cant say that if it says that there will be no new profets or angels but in the 13 articals of faith it says that we belive in the bible as far as it is correct i think but i cant give you a deffent answer as im in the middle of moving and cant find the right box at the presant moment p.s. sorry bout the bad spelling

Okay, let's look at it this way. Read Revelations 22:18-19. I know Mormons will probably tell you that this has been translated incorrectly. The thing about the Mormon belief in the Bible "so long as it is translated correctly" is a RED FLAG. The fact is, that if you are going to have faith in God, the Creator of our universe(!) you MUST also have faith in the Bible, EXACTLY as it is translated. Don't you think that our Omnipotent God, who inspired the Bible to be written by men, ensured it's preservation until the invention of the printing press by Johann Gutenberg in 1450 (that's 1400 years of scrolls) would insure that NOTHING was lost or added in translations that would subsequently spread throughout the world? I don't think that this would have been too difficult for a God that created the UNIVERSE out of NOTHING. The fact is, that Mormons use this "so long as it is translated correctly" thing as an escape clause, which they apply EVERY time Biblical scripture contradicts their doctrine or their Book of Mormon. Tell me something, just what do you mean by, "as long as it is translated correctly?" Last time I checked, your "church" was using the same Bible that I use, the King James Version. If there are "errors" in the translation of the Bible, why hasn't your "prophetic" church president sent down a new, revised translation with all the necessary (convenient) corrections?
The fact is that MOST Mormons don't know what that clause is supposed to mean. They only know that they are taught to throw it at anyone who challenges them with Biblical contradictions to their beliefs.
For anyone who doesn't have a Bible: Revelations 22 18-19 reads:
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

If that's the wrong translation, tell me what it should read. The fact is that if you're Mormon you just don't want to believe what the Bible says, because it means that what you believe is wrong, that your "church" is wrong. And that's too much for most Mormons to handle. But the fact is that it is TRUTH whether you choose to believe it or not. Joseph Smith was a false prophet, the Book of Mormon is a fraud. I put all my faith in God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit - the Trinity...three personages in one. And as it says in John 1:1-5: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

The Bible is the Word of God, it is complete, it is accurate, it is EXACTLY as God wants it to be. Anyone who tries to tell you that it's not is either ignorant of the truth or deceiving themself (and you).

See my reply in Mormon Myths. I really don't want to type it again.

The reason we say "as long as it is translated correctly" is not to run away from anything. It simply means that there are other versions of The Bible that we do not believe to be true. In Joseph Smith's translations he also translated some verses in The Bible that have had simple but important words taken out, which have changed the meaning. These can be found in the back of The Deseret Industries' printing of The King James Version. To answer your question about Revelations 22,let me emphasize that this was written by John as a totally separate entity. These books were not compiled together until a much later date. Much of the writings in The New Testament were letters and were not written as a book. John was speaking about adding or changing the words that he wrote in Revelations, meaning anyone who would altar HIS words. That does not mean that NOBODY can EVER write anything again.
I am not going to argue with you about whether or not Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, because it is obvious that you have your mind made up already. I know that he is.
We would never undermine the power of God, but the fact remains that man can choose as he will. This is why bad things happen. If God wanted to intervene at any time this world has existed, he could have, but he didn't, and he will when he sees it is necessary.

Way to go, Researcher. Good response. I was about to reply then saw yours...

Isn't it in Deuteronomy or Numbers in the Old Testament that says something to the same effect? Not to add to this book?
I am probably way off on the books but I am sure I have heard that.

Cya!
Matziq - LDS & Proud of it!

Matziq - We have already been over this "discussion" with Mr Nice Guy. The scriptiure you are thinking about is Deut 4:2. According to Mr Nice Guy that scripture applies only to Deut. and the Revelations scripture applies to the entire book. I pointed out that there are several references to other prophets and their writings in the Bible, but those apparently were not included because God didn't want them. I also informed him that the Bible did not exist as a book until King James had it assembled and that the books of the New testament are not in the order they were written, but are arranged in an order that seemed logical at the time.

According to Mr. Nice Guy, I am a closed minded fool for believeing that the Book of Mormon supports and testifies of the Divinity and mission of Christ. The Bible is the only word of God and there is no other. Those who don't believe in it and Christ are wrong. There is apparently no truth outside of the Bible.

"If there are "errors" in the translation of the Bible, why hasn't your "prophetic" church president sent down a new, revised translation with all the necessary (convenient) corrections?"

For your information, MrNiceGuy, there is a "Joseph Smith Translation" of the Bible, which (although many do not realize) is a complete translation and correction of the Bible by Joseph Smith inspired of God, not just the few scriptures from it listed in the LDS edition of the KJV. I am not aware of the reason why this translation is not officially used by the church as a whole, but I would like to get back to you on that. And about your claims about the Bible being the only completely true book of scripture, how can you dispute the scriptures in Matthew 18:16 and 2 Corinthians 13:1 which state "in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established"? These verses strongly suggest that there should be a second or third companion to the Bible. How can you be sure that one of these companions is not the Book of Mormon? Believing in the Bible seems to include believing in other scripture, which is the opposite of what you said about the Bible being a completely true book...
Another interesting scripture in the Bible is in Ezekiel 37:15-19.

15 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

In ancient times, in addition to keeping records on metal plates, it was the custom to write upon parchment, which was then rolled onto sticks for preservation. So when Ezekiel was commanded by the Lord to "take thee one stick and write upon it, For Judah... then take another stick and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim," in our present day language it was the equivalent of commanding the prophet to write one record for Judah and a separate one for Joseph.
Keeping in mind that the Bible is commonly referred to as the record of the Jews, or Judah; and that the civilization described in the Book of Mormon descends from Manasseh, this scripture would seem to mean that these two records should one day be united. In the Mormon church, this has already happened. We believe that the Book of Mormon is the word of God, it has been proven from comparison of present-day copies of this book with the original editions that the text is the same, and we believe this to be true scripture. The Bible has been translated thousands of times, and Biblical scholars generally admit the presence of errors both in translation and in transcription of the text. "The Latter-day Saints believe the original records to be the word of God unto man, and, as far as these records have been translated correctly, the translations are regarded as equally authentic. The English Bible professes to be a translation made through the wisdom of man; in its preparation the most scholarly men have been enlisted, yet not a version has been published in which errors are not admitted." (quoted from "The Articles of Faith", a book approved of and published by the Church) This is why the statement "as far as it is translated correctly" appears in our articles of faith, not in order to conveniently dodge uncomfortable passages. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints accepts the Holy Bible as among the foremost of doctrinal books, just like other Christian denominations, but differ in the additional acknowledgement of other scriptures as holy and authentic.

MrNiceGuy, I have the impression that you were once or are a member of the church, and even though you have probably heard this before, I strongly challenge you (and all others reading this) to read it prayerfully. As one of the presidents of the church once said,

"If our critics would read the Book of Mormon with a prayerful heart, desiring to know the truth, they could be convinced that the Book of Mormon is true, and that would be far better than to make foolish criticisms."

I beg for forgiveness for making this so long and wish you well for the future.

Yes, revelations says (if you take away the fluff) "Do not add to the words of this book, nor take away from them."

The Bible is supposed to be "the word of God" and the word of God is absolute, so we must take that to mean what it says.

Now why is that quote in there? Well it says in the bible that Satan shall come as an "angel of light" So once the bible was completed, how are we to tell apart False prophets, Satan, and Real prophets of God?

The answer is provided by that quote in Revelations. God has provided us a way to know wether or not the words are from him, or from man {or satan} by telling us, THERE WILL NOT ** BE ** ANYMORE WORDS FROM ME. So that we may say "Ah, that guy is not a prophet!" God needed a way to show people that the Bible is the ONLY source of his words, so as not to lead people astray from his true words. So he told us "You are not to take away from the words of this book or add to them"

Now is the Book of Mormon adding to the words of the Bible? *YES!!* The Bible is the word of God, and supposedly, the Book of Mormon is also the word of God, therefore, the Book of Mormon adds to the word of God, which in context is, the Bible.

Therefore, I submit to you that The originator of the Book of Mormon was a false prophet and therefore, Mormonism is a false religion.

Now this sounds all mean and derogetory. In fact, it does not sound very intelligent. Would it mean anything if I said I am not a Christian? That I don't believe in the Bible or maybe even God? I know in this day and age, it is very un-politically correct to say something like I did, but Im not very politically correct

Well anyway, That is my take on the whole situation. Im not all that into churches or anything. I think that if there is a God, he is inside me, and knows me and loves me and forgives me. I don't need a church to tell me about how God is, or what he says. If God created me and watches over me, he knows. I just couldnt resist chiming in as I find the logic within a religious debate fascinating

Also, Please forgive the spelling mistakes..

You still don't adress the fact that the books of the Bible not written in chronological order, and that the book of Revelations was not written after the other books. Revelations is full of prophecies about the end of the world and second coming of Christ, so it was PROBABLY put at the end for this reason. This means that other books of the New Testament were actually written after Revelations. How can they be true unless the statement in Revelations means something else? How do we know that it doesn't mean that translators shouldn't add or take away from the words there or when people teach the doctrine there, they shouldn't leave out important parts or add theior own opinions? Besides this, you talk as if the Bible was a book written from beginning to end, when it is really a selection of the writings of different prophets who lived at different times in history.

I'm not one to get into religious debates, but MrNiceGuy... where do you get off telling people what to believe? I'm sorry, but I guess I just believe that people should believe what they feel good about believing... be it based on Christianity or otherwise, and what they come to know. I dont believe in dwarfing other peoples happiness... call me crazy. As long as people try to do right by what they believe to be right... I dont see where the problem is. I also stand my ground on my personal feeling that no one KNOWS for SURE what will happen when we die, and what is beyond. We have faith...... isnt that a large part of it? Not to sound like a hypocrite, but in the Bible doesnt Paul (??) see Jesus standing on the right hand of God... while he is filled with the Spirit? Far as I can tell, that indicates 3 separate beings.

In reply to everyone's comments and questions about adding to the Scriptures, Revelation 22:18 clearly states: "I am bearing witness to everyone that hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll; If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll;..."

This is CLEAR warning that there is to be NO OTHER additions to the Word of God. As regards the so-called prophet Joseph Smith, the Bible states at Matthew 24:24,25: "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will give great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones. Look! I have forewarned you." And again in Matthew 7:15,16: "Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to you in sheep's covering, but inside are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will recognize them..."

This is not to bash LDS, but truth is truth.

Talking about false prophets, your missing the point.

Not only does is say in Matthew 17:15,16: "Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to you in sheep's covering, but inside are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will recognize them..."


The point is watch for those that are ravenous wolves inside.

Those that take for themselves, lie and lead you astray.

Have you studied the history of Joseph Smith and the history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Joseph Smith was a tender loving man that would stand in the way of a child inorder to save the childs life. In fact he jumped in the way of a bullet shot by a mobb that would have killed his brother Hyrum and was killed instead. Joseph did not let his pride of being a Prophet get in the way of playing with children. Such as with Jesus when the children came to talk to him and the mothers said to the children do not bother him he is to busy to be bother. Jesus said, the children can stay and talk with me. Inorder to call Joseph a false prophet study the history of Joseph Smith's Life and the history of the LDS Church- The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. God put forth man above the animals by intellegence, therefore cease to be "ignorant".
Truth is not truth until you do the research!

Like nearly all of us - your actual religion is most probably an inheritance from your parents. This includes "belief in the Bible" (or the book of Mormon for that matter). If you had been born at another time or place you would have believed different things - perhaps in another book - perhaps in no book at all - but the teachings of a wise man as reported verbally. Recognise that your belief in the Bible is an accident of birth!

Now if you really believe literally in every word of the Bible then you have all kinds of problems, because it contradicts itself all over the place. The teachings of Jesus directly contradict and modify all kinds of teachings of the Old Testament prophets (that's how HE upset the high priests and got HIMSELF crucified!! - if HE had done nothing but echo the Old Testament we would never have heard of HIM.) Even within the Old Testament there is evidence of Judaism changing over the centuries. The Gospels were probably written after Revelation, so that you can't say the bit at the end of Revelation refers to the whole Bible - it is a warning to the scribes who copy the book of Revelation (remember this is long, long before the days of printing, or of compiled editions of the Bible for that matter) to do so carefully, and not leave anything out or add annything to that book!

Most of the Christian Holy Book, the Bible, is actually the scripture of Judaism - which is quite a different religion from Christianity. So if there can never be any more scripture it calls the authority of the New Testament into question just as much as the Book of Mormon.

The most important things about religion are the things they have in common. The real differences between religions are mostly either utterly inconsequential, or else honest mistakes (for which our Heavenly Father is, I suspect, quite prepared to forgive us).

There is one GOD. Different faiths may have all kinds of name for HIM, and believe all kinds of things about HIM. Some, perhaps all, of these different beliefs may have some kind or degree of truth in them, but they are all short of the absolute truth about GOD because that is beyond our comprehension. If HE were not HE would hardly be worth worth our worship.

GOD wants us to try to be better people - and to treat other people as we would like them to treat us. All religions teach something like this.

If you believe these two things then I think GOD will forgive you for being a Mormon, in fact I doubt if he seriously cares one way or the other - even if, as has been objectively been proven many times, Joseph Smith and Bringham Young WERE basically lying rogues, and the Book of Mormon IS a meaningless mixture of quotes from the Bible, Shakepeare etc. combined with a synopsis of a novel published in the 1820s.

AS IT IS - there is no need to Bible thump to prove that.

Worship GOD - not a Book - and use your God-given powers of logical thought - don't turn them off when you think about HIM!!

<"If there are "errors" in the translation of the Bible, why hasn't your "prophetic" church president sent down a new, revised translation with all the necessary (convenient) corrections?"
For your information, MrNiceGuy, there is a "Joseph Smith Translation" of the Bible, which (although many do not realize) is a complete translation and correction of the Bible by Joseph Smith inspired of God, not just the few scriptures from it listed in the LDS edition of the KJV.>

Since the KJV was known to contain mistakes, and as you said, Joseph later revised it, why did he quote from the KJV so much in the Book of Mormon?



As Jesus said, 'I came not to destroy, but to fulfill.' Jesus, in a sense, changed the law, but that law had been DESIGNED to be changed when Jesus came! All that stuff about animal sacrifices, wasn't really necessary, it was merely to teach people about the sacrifices so that they would understand when Jesus was sacrificed for them. Many things in the old testament point to Jesus and the new testament, which is why anyone reading the old testament would have understood that Jesus and the New Testament were from God. They were therefore a conclusion of the Old Testament, not an addition to it. But the New Testament does not predict the coming of Joseph Smith or some other inspired book. It doesn't fit in with the pattern of how God does things (he having revealed his final intentions, albeit obscurely, from the very beginning) and the evidence suggests that it is not from God.

The New Testament may not have prophecies about the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith, but the Old Testament certainly does.

I'm not a deeply religious person anymore, despite my 9 years of Catholic school, but I am very interested in religion (perhaps because of my schooling). I'm interested to know where in the Old Testament there were prophecies of the Book of Mormon.

Also I would like to add how un-Christian it is to denounce peoples beliefs (I mean, you're basically calling them stupid, and that's just not nice). I have always found it difficult to understand why nobody can have a religious conversation without getting mean. I personally don't follow the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, but I would definitely not call Mormons heretics, as many of these postings seem to be.

One more thing... It's been awhile since I read the Bible, so I'm sure there's something I'm forgetting that totally answers this question, but I have to ask it. If there are to be no more prophets, ever, then how are we to know Christ when he comes again?

I will leave you to look up the actual scriptures:

Ps. 85: 11 4 - The Book of Mormon was translated from Gold plates which were buried in the ground by Moroni, the last surviver of the ancient civilisation. Thus the Book comes out of the "dust" and out of the ground.

Isa. 29: 4 - See above

Isa. 29: 11 - This is a fulfilled prophecy. Joseph Smith took manuscripts that he had already translated to an professor/expert to ask him to independently verify the translation. The professor asked for the original plates, but they were sealed.

Isa. 29: 18 - The words of the Book of Mormon clarify the Principles of the Gospel

Ezek. 37: 19 - The stick of Ephraim is the Book of Mormon, the stick of Judah, the Bible, (Stick meaning the history of, or writings of)

John 10: 16 - The "Other Sheep" referred to are the Nephites on the American Continent who were led away there from Jerusalem, about 600BC, a few years before Jerusalem was destroyed.

I hope this helps.




Totally agree with you.



There is a prophet on the earth today. His name is Gordon B.Hinkley, and he is the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (aka Mormons).

Bless