h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

As a convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of LatterDay Saints eleven years ago, thank you for your positive comments and observations.

As a Christians yourself, however, you must recognise that salvation does only come through accepting Christ and his atonement. While Heavenly Father recognises that there is good in all people the scriputes are explicit that No-one sees the Father except through Jesus Christ.

It is not through egotism that Latter-Day Saints, or Mormons, testify that it is the only True Church on the Earth, but because it is the only Church that is set up exactly as the Lord set up the Church when he was here on earth; and because it is guided by Him through continuing revelation to a living prophet, who today is Gordon B Hinkley.

Allow the missionaries to present their message in full, and pray about it for yourself, and you will be able to receive direct confirmation of this through the Holy Ghost.

Kinf regards.

First of all, so that I don't feel I've spent the whole time slagging people off, let me congratulate you on rejecting the trinity doctrine - I am currently writing an article about how that doctrine is not from the Bible.

But I can't see how the Mormon church is 'set up exactly as the Lord set up the Church when he was here on earth', nor why it should be supposed to be in some respects, seeing as the circumstances we are in have somewhat changed since the times of the Romans. I have seen a number of things in the book of Mormon that seem to contradict the Bible, but what I mainly object to is the fact that Mormons don't mind going to war. Jesus never did anything like that, nor did he tell his followers to.
The other thing is the way that Mormons are only asked to preach for two years. Teaching others was a way of life for Jesus after his baptism, and for his followers after him.
There are other things, like tithing ("let each one do just as he has resolved in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver", 2 Corinthians 9:7).

I have a friend, who started off not believing in God. I showed him that God must exist, and was ready to teach him more, but by the next time I had seen him he said he was becoming a mormon (purely by accident, I missed out that second m when I was typing it. hee hee.). About this I am not happy.
We are both about to leave college. My plan is to get a part-time job to support myself and then become a pioneer, at least until I get married.
His plan is to go to university, get a high-paying job and discover something that will change the world for the better. These views are supported by the Mormons, which is understandable since they will get a tithe from all the money he earns. He is looking to himself and other scientists to improve the world, not to God.

He keeps telling me I should go to university with him. He pressures me to leave my course of dedication to Jehovah and go on a course of gaining worldly status and the amassing of wealth. Throughout all this, his Mormon ministers and friends see no reason to disagree with him.

Are these things (war, greed and a lack of faith in God to solve the worlds problems) really the mark someone who is following Jesus Christ? Think how well he could have freed everyone from the Romans, being able to 'petition at any moment for more than twelve legions of angels'! Think how much money he could have made and left to his disciples to help the preaching work! Think what he could have done about the worlds problems (find a few loaves and fishes, and suddenly a third of the world is no longer starving)! But he didn't. He knew that it was up to Jehovah to solve the worlds problems, and just did these things as much as was necessary to support his preaching work, his service to Jehovah.

I have just been looking back at the messages over the last few days:



Just as evidence of the point I was making. What does this Mormon think we should do? We should try to solve all the problems that are completely beyond our grasp, utterly impossible for us to solve. We should do these things! Not sit here talking about the Bible and what Jehovah and Jesus want us to do, 'wasting our time'. How silly of us!

There seems much that you do not understand about the Mormon Faith.

First it is set up as the Church was when Jesus was on Earth, or how He established it when he Ascended.It has a Prophet, 12 Apostles, Seventies, Evangelists, Teachers, etc (I know of no other Church that has a President and 12 apostles)

Mormons DO mind going to war. I do not know where you get it that Mormons are war-mongering. However, as a last resort it is sometimes necessary. If the Free Christian World had not unted to fight against Nazism in the second world war where would we be now?

Mormons are only called to go on a Mission for two years, where they set apart there lives exclusively to go to preach the Gospel for that period. Before and after we are asked to share the Gospel with others while going about our normal daily lives. ("Every member a missionary"). How could we provide for or raise our families, or get an education if we spent our entire lives in a far away country on a mission?

Abraham paid tithes to Melchezidek. Tithing is an ancient law that you read about in Malachi 3:10 "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it"

Tithing requires faith to pay, but in so doing the Lord blesses you beyond whhat you could imagine. You will always have enough for your needs, and will prosper.

Science and God are not mutually exclusive. Heavenly Father wants us to learn and gain knowledge about the Universe, and has blessed us with immense knowledge in this day and age, which have enhanced the lives of millions, particularly in medicine and communications. There is nothing unholy in gaining an education, quite the opposite.

Through serving your fellow man you serve God. If your friend is seeking these things in order to be acclaimed by the world then his motivation is wrong. However he can still follow that path, and desire to excel in his life, if it done with an eye single to the Glory of God. The Lord does condone our efforts to better ourselves and our situation (Parable of the talents).

I don't have time to write much at the moment, but a few things:


True, but where did the Bible say it was necessary for the congregation to always have 12 apostles? And what are the 'seventies'? The only thing that comes to mind is Jesus sending out seventy people to preach, but since they were just normal followers that assumably isn't what you're referring to.


Suggesting that we needed to fight the Nazis is mere human reasoning, it does not come from the Bible. Whether YOU think it was right to fight in that instance or not, just consider whether Jesus would have been likely to be in one of those tanks, or in a Spitfire.


I'm not suggesting that everyone should go an a mission for their whole lives, but that they should keep on actively preaching for their whole lives. My Mormon friend, and his friend, never seem to have done any preaching, merely because they haven't gone on their mission yet - they seem to feel that is the only time they will be obligated to preach. I do plenty of preaching, but am at the same time easily getting an education (just taking my last A-level exams in the next few weeks).

Yes, the Jews had to pay tithes. But we are not Jews. The tithes supported the priesthood, but our elders and fellow ministers are told to support themselves (assuming that they are not retired, which about two-thirds of them are, by my estimate).

I am well aware that Science and God are not mutually exclusive, I am doing my A level in Physics, and often use scientific points to argue for Gods existence. But these are the last days, critical times, and are not the time to be devoting ourselves to learning. 'To the making of many books there is no end, and much devotion to them is wearisome to the flesh', 'There exists the one whose hard work is in aquiring knowledge ... This too is vanity and a striving after the wind.' We should do only what is necessary to support us in our service of Jehovah.

And what does the parable of the talents have to do with efforts to better OURselves and OUR situation? The servants in that illustration were working for Jesus with the assets he had given them, that is, the truth. They worked to spread that truth and were rewarded for working hard for their master.

You Mormon friend evidently do not preach to you because they know that you are not yet prepared to accept the Gospel.

I have been sharing what I know to be True with you (ie preaching the Gospel), but with little success! We mormons do what we can when we can with those who are redy to listen.

You say that you are just taking your A-levels this week. Good luck with them, but it does indicate that you are yet young. It is admirable that you know so much about religion.

When one accepts that one does not know everything it opens the door to learning a whole lot more.

For example, tithes go to paying for upkeep of Chapels and building temples. None of the priesthood leadership in my Ward,or Stake (of which I am one) receive one penny over remuneration for the work we do in the Church, each of whom support themselves and family, working full time.

The Prophet and apostles (There are 12 Apostles in the world not in each congregation) have consecrated all there worldly belongings to the Church.

You seem to have an inconstent attitude to learning and its merits, describing it as vain when you go to university but Ok when you do 'A' levels!!??

Without research how is cancer cured? How would you be able to communicate by e-mail, or on the net without the furthering of technology? How much better is your life because of these things that you are so opposed to people studying about?

We are blessed with many things by the Lord, it is up to us to use that which we are given stewardship over. (A "Talent" was a unit of money, a coin.) In terms of this parable it can mean any God-given asset, ability or talent. Clearly in this parable we are meant to magnify, and make better, these talents and abilites (ie ourselves!)

Your statement is illogical. I have known the Gospel since my earliest memories, have always believed it and have been living my life on it's basis for several years.


My attitude is inconsistent over time because I am young and have have only recently (about a year and a half ago) been baptised. I was a lot less wise 2 years ago. Had I been as sensible then as I am now, I may not have come to college. Still, going to college every day on the bus is quite different from moving and living in a university - a person who does such a thing is quite devoted to his education.

As for improving the world with technology etc, consider an illustration:

Imagine, one day, a dam with an inhabited village behind it. You have looked at the dam and know that in the coming night, it is going to collapse, and the village will be washed away. Noone in the village knows this, and of course you want to help them. So what do you do?
Do you try to prop the dam up with some wood, to try to stop it from collapsing? Do you get a bucket and bail water from behind the dam so the impact won't be *quite* as devasting? Do you start planting flowers in the village, trying to make it a nicer place to live?
Or do you warn all the people in the village, urging them to get out and flee to a safe place?

These are the last days! Armageddon is coming! The world is going to be destroyed, however nice it is! People in the world who don't worship Jehovah are going to be killed, whether they have AIDS or not, whether they have cancer or not, regardless of whether they are on the internet or whether they have a car, whether they are black or white, young or old, male or female, no matter how much money they have, no matter how many degrees they have. If a person has AIDS, curing them isn't going to prolong their life by any significant degree. The only thing that is going to help them is teaching them, so that they can obey the command in Zephaniah 2:2,3 :
"BEFORE the statute gives birth to anything, BEFORE the day has passed by just like the chaff, BEFORE there comes upon you people the burning anger of Jehovah, before there comes upon you the day of Jehovahs anger, seek Jehovah, all you meek ones of the earth, who have practised his judicial decision. Seek righteousness, seek meekness. Probably you may be concealed in the day of Jehovahs anger."

I am sorry, I will correct my statement:

You are not yet prepared to receive the True Restored Gospel, complete with continuing revelation.

Good luck in your studies, and in your life. You have a very strange attitude to life and reality.

Armageddon will come, and we need to warn people and be prepared both physically and temporally. No man knows when it will be, It could be within a year it could be twenty. In the meantime do we sit around and do nothing to alleviate suffering now?

Your attitude of how God will save us reminds me of the story of the young man who is trapped on the roof of his home as the flood rises and threatens to envelope him. First a man in a rowing boat comes past and offers to take him to safety on higher ground.

The young man refuses and says "God will save me"

The floods continue to rise and soon a Lifeboat comes by. Again the young man refuses to go aboard saying "The Lord will save me".

Finally, as he is clinging to the chimney, as the Floods rise around his neck, a Sea-rescue helicopter hovers above him and drops a rope for him to cling to. Again the young man refuses to take hold, crying "The Lord will save me".

Eventually the Water rises above his head, He is swept off and drowns.
He comes to the pearly gates and meets St Paul. He asks St Paul, sorrowfully, "Why didn't the Lord save me?"

St Paul replies to him, "He sent you a rowing boat, a life boat and helicopter. What more did you want?"

I know this is off topic, but some of the researchers have not edited there page,If you can go back to your own page and then click on the "EDIT PAGE" button, then write something about your self, then we can come and welcome you there properly, sorry for the interuption,

manda

My hope is to live in the restored earth rather than heaven, but in a way, the man in the story is right - the lord did save him, because he is in heaven. But it bears little relevance to the situation of armageddon, because I am concerned with who will save everybody else, not me. And I know from human experience and from the Bible that neither I nor any other human can do it, so it is different from being rescued from a flood, which anybody can do.

Going back to your earlier points, you dismiss Malachi, and what he siad about tithing becaaue it is a "Jewish Law, so does not apply to us.

Actually LDS members are adoopted into the Hous eof Israel. Therefore the Law very much does apply to LDS Church members who are party to the Abrahamic Covenant.

That aside, the Ten Commandments were given to Moses. They too are Jewish Law. Do you dismiss them so readily?

Also, you are happy to dismiss as irrelevant Old Testament Prophets when it suits you, but ready to quote them also when it fits with you points. siggest you take a step back and examine the inconsistencies in your own logic and arguments

It's not strictly true to say that I 'dismiss' Malachi because I still believe in it's principles (in this case, that if we are willing to make sacrifices, we will be blessed for it) even though I do not follow it's specific laws (ie. making it specifically a tenth, and it's application only to material possessions), which I don't think were actually given by Malachi anyway; I seem to remember that he was quoting the law, not givng it.

But Jesus said he was the fulfillment of the law and the prophets, so that they would have ended once he was gone. That's why, for example, the Christian congregation did not have to be circumcised, and why Jehovah no longer fights for the Jews the way he once did.

The Ten Commandments cannot be dismissed because they are reiterated in the New Testament (eg. neither ... , nor idolators, nor ... will inherit Gods kingdom). Indeed, this does not apply to all ten of the commandments - we no longer have to honor the sabbath day.


But then, I only stated that we weren't under Jewish laws, didn't I? (If we were, we would still have to offer animal sacrifices etc. Do you really do this, as you seem to claim in your second paragraph?) What was in Zephaniah was a prophecy and a warning, not a law. And I'm sure there are plenty of places it is reiterated in the New Testament, but the way Zephaniah worded it seemed the best to make the point.

The guy who drowned was not saved.

If you take your own life, or act so recklessly so as to effectively give it up, then the Lord takes a pretty dim view of it.

Devoting you life to Christ is wonderful, provided that is what you are doing, and work that relieves suffering is EXACTLY what he wants us to do. "He who does this unto the least of my brethren has done it unto me".

To think that the ONLY repsonsibility you have as a Christian is to preach in order to "Save" is rather mssing the point.

No Mormons do not give blood scarifice. That was done away with the atonement. But they do pay tithing. You are correct, the verse in Malachi is quoting the law, which means that at some point it was given(!!), and re-iterating the blessings for obeying it.

The requirement to pay tithes for those within the covenant has been restored in modern reveleation. (Doctrine & Covenants)

Since when did Jesus say that we no longer have to
Honour the Sabbath??????
He said that the Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath, and be reasonable in interpreting it (ie don't stone people to death for walking on the grass). they are the TEN COMMANDMENTS, not the ten suggestions as to how to live your life. Of course they still stand.