h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I'll add my 2p-worth (or possibly worthless). Why stop now, just when I'm hating it, as a wise entity once said.

The big problem is that for many people, Atheism -> Nihilism -> Nietzsche > Hitler. When we cease to believe in a superior entity by whose dictates moral standards can be objectively defined, then the foundations of civilization are overthrown.
If there is no God, no divine reward at the end, then there is no reason for people to be willing to go and die in battle for their country, no reason for people to behave well for fear of hell, no reason for anything, because it's all futile.

Nietzsche announced that God was dead and that the fundamental basis of morality was power. Hence when God was the most powerful thing around then what he said was definitively right, and so therefore, if you have the power to do it, it's OK, because there's nobody to stop you. Hitler liked that a lot.

The whole thing is so depressing that I sometimes wish that God would put it right... if only Newton hadn't put out a contract on him, Darwin done the hit, Nietzsche pronounced him dead and Hitler danced on the grave.

I'm starting to ramble a little now... The most important thing in the Universe to me is Me, because if there is no Me then nothing else in the Universe can be important, because there is no Me for it to be important to. Morality therefore dictates that to give the universe meaning I must take every opportunity to further my own interests and increase my own stature. Without me to observe it the universe is nothing. I'm now heading rapidly into an abyss of quantum solipsism and risking my sanity, so I'd better stop now and start acting like a normal, 'moral' human being, whatever that means.

There is no clear, reasoned argument to a point here, just me typing what's on my mind at the moment. I hope nobody here is a psych doctor else I'll get committed.

Oh no, there goes my last link with the normal human state of mind, I'm drowning in depressing philosophy and a life with no greater meaning... we are just clever apes! Aaargh!

Nihilists often tend to be suicidal assassins, since they think life has no meaning. The only quibble I have with this creed is with the implementation, which is usually (1) kill everyone else, (2) kill yourself. I suggest the order should be reversed.

In Theory of Knowledge I was taught that "nihilism" was the rejection of knowledge, the concept that nothing could really, truely be "known" for certain -- which leads more to the Ruler of the Universe from Hitchhiker's, you know, the guy who refuses to say anything is certain, only his perception of events? My dictionary seems to agree with the article's definition, though, which is strange, because I always thought my ToK instructor was the smartest man in the world. I'm going to go back to highschool and tell him he's wrong!

Hmm...
I think in much the same way as the Ruler of the Universe, but with
the difference that I respond to all the things of which I have no idea.
Much more fun that way. I think. I'm not 100% certain.

Don't forget Existentialism - the attempt to rise above the gloom of nihilism and restore meaning and purpose to life. Existentialists doesn't oppose naturalism (everything is explained by natural causes, there's no God) but seek to go beyond it by saying that humans are unique in that they can and should create meaning and purpose for themselves. While theists look to God for an absolute standard, existentialists look to themselves.
This creates a fundamental problem: if all of us are deciding for ourselves what is right and wrong and valuable, what happens when we disagree?

A poster read: 'God is dead - Nietzche.'
The graffiti underneath read: 'Nietzche is dead - God.'

::Jerry Garcia walks by, adding::

"Nietzche is God -- the Dead"

I think the idea that nothing can be known for certain is not so much a philosophy as the staple of 20th century science. Quantum theory is largely based o Heisenbergs's Uncertainty Principle, which states that no two properties of an object can be precisely known simultaneously. It is understood than, that nothing can truly be known by human observers. So, if this definition of nihilism is correct, then it is possibly the first philosophy to concur with our modern picture of the universe.

Nihilism isn't so much a pure concept as the name applied to a certain way of thinking by the church. Any connotations the description has picked up over the last eight centuries usually belong to different schools, those of philosophy prominent amongst them. People who believe they can kill people because life has no meaning are usually termed sociopaths and should be avoided. The classic nihilist might starve a little if they shun the principle of working for daily bread but they'll usually only practise the art as a deomnstration rather than a creed. More beguiling philosophies usually draw from many elements to put forth either a meaningful description of a situation or an ideal to be striven for - existentialism, humanism and atheism are better starting points for these rather than a flat refusal to take any way of living seriously.

Nihilism rocks... existentialism does as well but it's a bit academic to decide that you exist and then just work on that assumption.
Anyone know of a guide entry on L'etranger by Camus? that's a really fun one I think that saying "nihilism makes people want to kill other people" is a bit daft... what about Charles Manson and all the killers that went around killing people randomly in the name of god.
It's sort of depressing in a way not believing in anything but if you can get over the point where you need to believe in something and you're happy just doing what feels appropriate at the time you're quite lucky. (Even more so if you are easily made happy by doing constructive, creative things and helping other people).

You're right, it would be more appropriate to say "nihilism is an excuse for people to kill other people". The psycos you mentioned (which include, not to insult anyone, the whole Catholic Church during the Crusades and the Inquisition) are usuing God as their excuse. Some people just *look* for a reason to do it. These people are sick, but there's nothing to stop people from finding excuses and scapegoats.

~Irving

Sure. Human nature is pretty much the same thing for everybody, fanatics in whatever creed are simply justifying natural instincts. These can be formed either by unhappy past occurances or a genetic disposition.

In regards to Nihilism, I think it's the ultimate morality. I mean, if we refuse to accept anything as proven and granted, including life after death, the nice patterns of Spectrographically scattered light on the side of a bleached beer can, e.t.c. then what really matters?

The only thing I can find is sensation, and since I do not want to be restricted from my particular brand of sensory I/O, I have learned to try not to bother the thoughts of others. (As long as they don't bother mine.)

In conclusion, does/has/or can Nihilism lead to empathy and a respect for the sensual reality? (Note when I say sensual reality I am including a concept of perceptional reality, which is not, of course reality at all {which may not exist}, but it works for me.)

Personally, I like Nihilism. Whatever you do is completely pointless. That's as pure a definition fo freedom as I can think of, and freedom is hugely good. Life's a game, save regularly, preserve your energy bar.

I'm not really sure that nihilism is such a good thing to allow or force upon your mind (it's forcing, isn't it? I mean, it's a human necessity to believe.). From what I've understood from Turgenev and the above comments, nihilism involves the rejection of all doctrine. Fine. But does that mean you are never to form your own system of belief?

I don't know. I just remember reading about a lot of assasination attempts on Russian officials by nihilists . . . I'm not a big fan of killing.

Anyway, I would like to consider myself an absurdist or more simply an existentialist in that life really has no meaning (no predetermined one) aside from what a give it and that I have the freedom to do what I wish with my life. That freedom however, is not to change the intentions or adversely affect another's life.

I don't think nihilism is really that 'cool'. It just seems to me that it's a little club for people who can't get past that adolescent "rebel against authority" phase. Of course, that's just my opinion.

Who's saying it's a neccesity to believe in anything? And how can you force *dis*belief on anybody?
You are ofcourse free to form your own system of belief, but I guess you couldn't call yourself nihilistic if you took your beliefs for granted.

The russian nihilist assassins thing sounds like basic propaganda. Wonder why it isn't enough to just kall them murderers...

I'm saying it's a necessity to believe in something. This is just an observation I've made by looking at the people around me and the word - with open eyes of course.

And by the way, before you strike out against words that were never used, note that I never called those who made the attempts upon Russians "assassins". My mention only considered their actions, nothing to do with propaganda.

Perhaps this is one of the problems with nihilism: rebellion against the perceived and not the reality.

Well ... It's all in how you look at is, isn't it? I mean, look at the grasshopper. He doesn't go around worrying about the meaning of it all, does he? And he gets along perfectly fine, in his little universe. It's all about what universe you want to construct for yourself, or if you'd rather have one of those prefab deals where you're a cog in the machine. Don't you think so?

It's not entirely clear why nihilist assasins are relevant to anything. I'm sure I could find murderers from every single major and minor branch of philosophy and religion...

Yeah, e.g. Jesus. Got the whole thing going by letting himself being Kissed(Jude) and Killed(Romans). If he realy knew god, he should have been able to talk him into a different way then crusification.

we are awareness our main reason to be is that of perciveing other points of awareness one thing im certain of is there will be a kickin party at the end of the universe.some will tell you its already started. all the gods will be there alive or not its much to big of a socail event to miss just because one might be dead.weve had from day one afterall to prepare and i expect no one who attends will leave dissipointed