h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

the bible also says that only those who do obey the good news will be destroyed

2Th 1:6 Since it is a righteous thing with God to repay affliction to those who afflict you,
2Th 1:7 and to give relief to you that are afflicted with us, when the Lord Yeshua is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire,
2Th 1:8 giving vengeance to those who don't know God, and to those who don't obey the Good News of our Lord Yeshua,
2Th 1:9 who will pay the penalty: eternal destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might,
2Th 1:10 when he comes to be glorified in his holy ones, and to be admired among all those who have believed (because our testimony to you was believed) in that day.


we can trust God to do what is just and right

it doesnt say anywhere in the bible that children will be saved until they have understanding nooooo where at all and i am sure of that

Does that mean if you are Christian but you follow another religion's beleifs and practices, do you then go to the other religion's heaven as opposed to the biblical Heaven?

It's impossible to follow another religion's beliefs and practices AND be a Christian if Christianity isn't compatible with the other doctrine.

I assume what you meant is: if Christianity is false, but another religion is, and you were a Christian to the fullest extent, and that lifestyle happens to be compatible with the true religion (whatever that is), then will you go the the "true religion"'s heaven?

The quick and easy answer is: yes. The more sophisticated answer, from a philosophical (and Christian) standpoint, is: your question is invalid. The idea of multiple religions being compatible just doesn't make sense. There are many other things, particularly in logic, which can only be arrived at by one method.

Consider geometry. The simplest path from point A to point B is a straight line. In Christian theology, the simplest way from a sinful existence (point A) to a righteous life with God is a straight and narrow path - which is so narrow that it may as well be a line. When I say it is the simplest way, I mean that you may stray from that path during your life - the road's narrowness making it difficult to follow - but as long as you come back onto the path, you can achieve righteousness, just as, as long as a line from A ends at B, you have drawn a line between the two points.

Be careful not to take this analogy too far. I do not mean to say that the end justifies the means. However, if you are a Satanist all your life, and just before you die you realise the error of your ways and *repent*, meaning you apologise earnestly to God for your sins and accept Jesus as your saviour, you can enter God's kingdom. That repentance is a necessary step. You cannot just go through the rituals, being baptised and confirmed, and expect to be accepted, like Roman Emperor Constantine.

What version of the Bible is that? It's pretty hard to understand. Here's the same passage from the Contemporary English Version (2 Thessalonians 1:6-10):

It is only right for God to punish everyone who is causing you trouble, but he will give you relief from your troubles. He will do the same for us, when the Lord Jesus comes from heaven with his powerful angels and with a flaming fire.
Our Lord Jesus will punish anyone who doesn't know God and won't obey his message. Their punishment will be eternal destruction, and they will be kept far from the presence of our Lord and his glorious strength. This will happen on that day when the Lord returns to be praised and honoured by all who have faith in him and belong to him.

I have to agree. There's no need worrying about Hell and what happens after you die. There's plenty of Hell right here on Earth!

Hell is not so much as a place but as a state of mind for those poor souls who has digrest off the path God has set before them. I do not intend to preach because I like eveyone else have sinned, but it looks to me if you are to spend the rest of time in a place of torture then it is you who knows what causes you pain.

A merciful God would not think up something like hell, surely?

St Thomas Aquinas: "Beware the man of one book!"

I'm no theologian, but I believe that when Jesus said that those who follow him reach heaven, he did not mean Christians per se. I believe he meant people who love, and live by his teachings of peace and forgiveness. Look at his parable with the Sumerian who saves the beaten up Jew on the road. The Sumerian, despite his lack of an orthodox God, seems a good canidate for heaven. Jesus preached a lot about accepting people beyond boundaries of religion, like when he would speak to the Jews who did not worship at the Temple in Jerusalem. Think in parables. He says that it doesn't matter where you worship - he tells them to tear down the temple and that it is inside the human spirit. Allegorically, call the temple Christianity, one type of faith. It doesn't matter where you worship, but what is in your heart.

Either way, Jesus's teachings are just a very good guide to how to truly appreciate your one short life. Love people, forgive people, (don't waste that short time hating!) and stop worrying about little pointless details like washing your hands or getting circumsized. It's not about the rules, its about the spirt.

So heaven is not the incentive, and avioding Hell is certainly not the incentive. He tells you how to live well on Earth, and that should get you to heaven anyway.

actually Jesus did mean Christians. a christian is someone who believe in him, that he died on the cross and was ressurrected, and asks him to be a part of their lives. if you did not believe that you would not follow Jesus teachings, and wouldn't be a Christian. those who do follow believe, and are Christians, so only Christians go to heaven.

and you are not judged on your actions on Earth. you are judged by whether you know Jesus in your heart or not.

spook

if we were judged by our actions we'd all fall short since we all sin. it had to be Jesus who came to save us because none of us were good enough to do the same.
being a Christain means believing Jesus came to save us because he loved us & we in turn love Him. we ask Him the way to help us become better people (& he does so) not because that will get us into heaven but because we want to follow His example as a way to continue spreading Gods love for us all...

i dont think im explaining it v well. i hope u all understand what im trying to say here.

It doesnt matter where u worship as such, because church isnt the buildings, its the people. the stuff about preaching to non christians is about spreading the message of God & salvation thru Jesus... "How can they believe if they have not heard? And how can they believe if the message is not procliamed?" (Romans 10:14).... this is to 'convert them'.. ie for them to believe in Christ Jesus & through him be saved.



omy

Christianity is a brilliant religion for rubbishing all other ones. It is certainly true that the gung ho christians believe that they are the only ones who'll go to heaven and that all the other non-believers, or satanic idol worshipping freaks as they seem to think of them, will be sent to hell as punishment for not believing in the 'right' god. (they conveniently forget at this point that their god is supposed to be all forgiving and tolerant, not some vengeful nasty who forces people to obey him on pain of death like some dictator) It always amazes me that christians distinguish their god in a different category than all the other so-called idols without realising that their god is actually another 'idol' to all the other religions. I get what you're saying about the win win on goin to heaven, but as far as I'm concerned if you're dead how are you gonna know what's happening and whether your eternal soul is being fed peeled grapes by some angel or being boiled in a pot by 2 fornicating demons??!! The whole thing is based on your soul having a consciousness to be able to distinguish where it is and what's happening to it, and I'm sorry but however many things a soul may be...it ain't the conscious part of you.

Tip: If any glazed eyed christians accost you on the street and tell you through a fixed smile that you should repent so you can go to their god's heaven just tell them that you want to go to hell cos they wear leather!

I dont think people of other religions are "satanic idol worshipping freaks". most of my best mates for the past 7yrs have been non-christians (& ive never preached to them as they are intellient people & know all the arguements. heres a different matter cuz u can jus skip this convo/post if u think its a loada shit).
But i *do* believe in the one true God (who incidently is the same God as for Jews & Muslims as we'd all agree)... the difference comes in where we stop believing the bible. at the most basic level all these three religions share a common scared book, the Old Testament (as it is known in Christianity), the fundamental difference of being Christian is that we believe Jesus was Gods son sent to save us. corny sounding but true.

You can't put down Christianity by saying 'they think their religion is the only way to get to heaven'.. cuz thats the basis of all religion. each believe themselves to be right, which by default makes all the others wrong. but I know what I believe is true..... before anyone has a go at me countless others from all religions will say the same. Most other religions that i can think of (& I know its only a handful) require you to live your life by strict rules to get into heaven since you are judged by God before you get in. but we are only human, we make mistakes. thats why God took pity on us cause he loves us & through Jesus we are free to be human & make mistakes. Thats not a free ticket to cause panic or mayhem for the hell of it tho since then you wouldnt be a Christian in that case, if you believe then you try to live your life by Gods rules, even tho you wont always manage it. being sent to hell is about being seperated from God forever. I believe that those who follow Judaism & Islam will be judged before our God as they believe. But by believing in Jesus Christians by-pass the judging process kinda. we are judged on if we let Jesus into our lives or not. & the key step to that is belief & acceptance that he is Gods son, who died to save us because of His, Gods love for us.

If you refuse to listen to the Gods call I pity you. I dont mean that to sound nasty or uppity or anything. Its just that I *do* feel genuinly sorry for people who aren't able to experience the amazing feeling you get from believing & knowing & loving God. I can't think of any better feeling. Its like a having a father & a friend & a protector all at once..... and yet much more too.

Please dont let my silly babble put anyone off!

by the way, the reason i havent meantioned the older eastern religions (eg Buddism) is cause I dont know enough about them.
i personally believe their god(s) are just their way of visualising the one true God.... although, it has turned into idol worship in some cases, that occurs when the material image becomes more important than the spiritual presence....

...i write waaaay to much on here. feel free to yell sut up at me peeps!

omy

[reply to post 50]

Your argument is flawed. Jesus spoke of a Samaritan, who was a Jew who would have worshipped elsewhere than Jerusalem; not a Sumerian, which civilisation petered out after about 2000 BC.

And about Jesus saying that his message was for all people, for Gentiles as well as Jews, I interpret that as encompassing all cultures, not all religions. I mean, while it's hard to live as a Christian in a culture dominated by non-Christians, it's mostly possible to continue to be a part of such a culture. And if an entire culture is converted to Christianity, only those parts which are incompatible need change.

Though you certainly are right about heaven/hell not being the incentive for being a Christian. The incentive is that becoming a Christian changes you so that God's law is etched on your being. You obey it because you want to, not because God tells you to.

That's embarrasing. I don't have time to pull out the Bible and clarify further - maybe I'm even wrong. I will continue to say that the existence of a heaven or hell is irrelevant.

Life is beautiful. Love makes it so. Loving God? Take this quote from earlier in the thread: "the amazing feeling you get from believing & knowing & loving God. I can't think of any better feeling. Its like a having a father & a friend & a protector all at once..... and yet much more too."
Some emotions escape description, so imagine how that writer must really feel.

Even if there is no afterlife, loving and believing in God is the best way to spend the short life on earth.

A joke told to me by a teacher:

A women dies and goes to heaven. When she arrives at the pearly gates St Peter greets her and takes her on a tour around heaven. He tells her,
'over there are the Muslims, here are the Buddists, these are the hindus' and so on.
Then the women notices a cloud surrouded by a brick wall,
'Why's that cloud walled off?' she asks
'Ah, those are the Christians- they like to believe they're the only ones here'

Surely it dosen't matter if you're one religion or another if you try to live a good life? I know you're going to say that what matters is accepting Jesus into your heart and accepting he saved us but surely the most important thing in accepting Jesus is that you are sorry for things you've done wrong and that you love the world. Anyone can feel this if they wish regardless of religion.

to put it simply, no. as a christian, if you do not believe Jesus is the son of God, was baptised, died for your sins and was ressurected, and you repent your sins and want Jesus to be a part of your life, then it don't matter how much you love the world, how good you are, or how sorry you are.

spook

Matthew 7:21-23 - "Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’  And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness."

There will be plenty who consider themselves willing to accept Jesus, and even believe themselves to have done so, but are rejected by him because they are not willing to do the will of his Father.

For example, Jesus' Father gave the commandment at Leviticus 18:22 - "And you must not lie down with a male the same as you lie down with a woman. It is a detestable thing." Since Jesus' Father clearly stated that he detests homosexual acts, how do you suppose Jesus will judge one who says he accepts Jesus and tries to live a good life in most respects, but is unwilling to stop practising homosexuality - regardless of whether he is a 'Christian'*, a priest, a vicar, a bishop, or even the pope?

Furthermore, then, if you ('you' in a general sense, not just the particular person to whose post I am replying) consider yourself to have accepted Jesus, do you feel it to be proper to count yourself among a church that allows or even promotes such things?


* 'Christian' is put in quotation marks because someone who willingly practises things against Jesus' will may call themselves a Christian, but they can't really be one.

I count myself as a christian & proclaim Jesus (although i dont shout it from the roof tops.... mainly cuz rooftops r rather dangerous & my parents would throw a fit if i climbed up there!) & attempt to follow his teachings... i say attempt because being human we all fall short of perfection. i know i slip up regularly, i try not to usually but its hard (& i frequently fail). but the Lord knows this. He accepts us dispite these mistakes so long as we realise & truely repent them. the fact that we fall short of perfection is the reason we need to acknowledge Jesus. by becoming the perfect human... mankind as it was meant to be.... he has shown us the way into heaven by following him in heart, word & deed, as well as we can, we can get there too.

the whole sexualty thing is too complicated for me to unravel... my only advice on the subject is that if any one who is/wants to be both homosexual & a christain they should pray to God & accept His answers on the subject, & let others accept them too.

omy