h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

"The persistent inequality of social class"

That's at the heart of the government's White Paper on social mobility. But hang on a minute, this is a government that has been in power for almost twelve years! Why has New Labour failed to deal with these inequalities until now? Harriet Harman says: "It is our task in government to play our part in fashioning a new social order with fairness and equality at its heart."

When he was Prime Minister, Tony Blair famously refused to say that the gap between rich and poor was a problem in itself.

Kirsty Wark: Newsnight Newsletter

And they see helping people by 'advising' them into badly paid rotten jobs, so poorly paid that they have to be subsidised by benefits.

What's going on? Any thoughts?

Dunno: ever thought what it would be like if we all got the same money-regardless of how hard we worked or how amny children we had?

As you imply, Lofts, Fairness is inconsistent with Equality. They contradict one another, and this is obvious when taken to extremes.

Jabs

I have spent my entire life gradually working down in terms of social class. There is actually far less to complain or worry about at the bottom and I am very happy there.

Hmmm.

I thought the British were happy with their class system, and wanted to keep it. Here in the U.S., we don't have classes.

What class system?

"Here in the U.S., we don't have classes." Certainly the outgoing president never seemed to have attended on.

What country hasnt a class system? I read a compelling article in favour of the general idea of class in India recently-the author was saying that in ancient times the class system worked much better - because everyone chose what line of work they wanted to do according to their aptitude to do it-essentially choosing what class they entered as a child; and were then educated as such. He reckoned that it was only later in history that a son would follow his fathers class-or i should say he would learn his fathers trade and his son his and so on -regardless of wether he had an aptitude or calling to it-thus stiffling the original system. He reckoned the brahmins of old could not work -they were men of learning and relyed for their welfare on the comunity-and anyone could become a brahmin if they wanted or if they had that calling-but they could not profit from their learning - you would need to be a merchant to make money etc....but as soon as the class system became set in stone-whereby one could not chose the best channel for ones talents in the community : it all became corrupt
Was there ever a golden age like that i wonder?

we used to have 3 classes
upper class - very rich - owners
middle class - semi rich - bosses
working class - once

now we have more

upper - still rich
not much middle class, maggie demoted them to working class(we were on strike where I worked and the wages manager told us on the picket line " no disrespect to you guys, but I was middle class man, SHE has put ME to working class, so where has she put you"
foreign class
trying to work class
and dog shelf - pass me the chum

down here though, we have more humourthan the top shelf

Its funny-some people with desent jobs get a crap salary-and some with crap jobs(mucky hands) are racking it in. call yourself what yer want but theres tinkers out there with more money than some people who think they got different coloured blood.
Where theres muck theres brass.

Nah! Tis all sweets ans xxx mags on the top shelf-i'll stick with the larder

mind you

Defensive humour? " I wouldn't have a £2 million pound bonus if they paid me?"

Only asking.

Jabs

Maybe not quite class but here's an interesting example of a non-hierarchical setting. A place I work in from time to time has a good example of a 'flat' structure; the titles are there: Director of Studies, Head of Centre Services, Housekeeping Manager and so on but the distinctions are largely functional and not hierarchical. This can best be seen at work in the weekly staff meeting which is attended by everyone from Director to Cleaner and any voluntary workers who happen to be there. At the meeting, all have an equal right to speak and be heard and equal weight is given to what they have to say. People are valued for who they are and the function they perform within the organisation is accorded equal value. It's a very happy place indeed in which to work!

Any vacancies?

I've heard that having a lot of money causes a lot of headaches, because money is so high-maintenance. You have to worry about keeping it safe from market crashes if it's in stocks. If it's in real estate, you have to worry about property taxes and rent collection and politicians who might want to rezone, and so forth. The people for whom having a lot of money is a big deal generally do find some way of getting a fair bit of it, but there are many different ways to relate to money as yu live your life. There are people in the so-called learned professions who don't earn a lot, but don't seem to worry, and don't much care what class they're in either.

It's not always terrible to work for a boss. Some bosses are great to work for. Having a lowly job doesn't necessarily cast you into a low class; what you do with your own time can matter. You might be a building custodian who coaches youth soccer teams. I knew a fireman who became a library trustee. Everyone is unique. Your job may or may not define you.

Now even for low paid jobs there is now psychometric testing, so that they can get the right person for the job but it is very to find what they want. I applied for several MacDonalds jobs where I had to complete an online psychometric test and one of the questions was have you ever lied as a child you had four choices totally disagree, disagree, do not know, agree or disagree and other similar sorts of questions. It would be a good idea if they would improve public transport, I live in the back of beyond aka Thurrock where we have very poor public transport and we cannot use the Oyster card.

Lofts, it's in Selly Oak, Birmingham. Bit of a commute?

From kent: yes.

It sounds like a great place-i am sure it must have something to do with your benign influence.

Hmmm, whilst I try to do my bit I assure you it was like that long before I came on the scene! Actually I'm there now - or I should say, I am *here* now. If you want to see it go to http://www.woodbrooke.org.uk/pages/about-woodbrooke.html Take a wander around the garden and grounds, look at the facilities and conference rooms - feel free!

I remember it well El.D
You were ataying there last year, and gave a breif description of what you just had for lunch(or were just going to have)
A very nice place -some very nice people also





here is somewhere round the corner from me-i used to go there alot when i was younger
ttp://www.thefriars.org.uk/visit/visit.html