h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I've watched the first Presidential debate and the Vice-Presidential debate on Sky TV, and my initial response is that it's looking like a contest between Smart and Experienced vs. Bumble and Bimbo. IF there's a country left for them to govern.

It's becoming clear to me that we're in such a terrible position in this country partly because of 8 years of Bush. I'm glad he's trying to do something about it at last. Blair/Brown too - an end to boom and bust? hahahahaha.

Anyone up on the economy? Am I right?

I'd be interested in everyone's responses, if they have any.


Jab

I think that both candidates were at their best. If they stay at their best, we might squeak through. Usually people don't stay at their best, though, gosh darn it!

It took three or four presidential administrations to put us where we are now. Obama and McCain are not superhuman, nor are their running mates. Even if the bailout vote goes as planned tonight, there's no guarantee that it will prevent future pain (possibly a lot of pain). Bubbles have way of popping, and things are never the same afterward . I could rant on about historical examples of this--the South Sea bubble, the Tulip bubble, the 1929 stock bubble, etc. let's face it, a lot of us knew that the subprime stuff was building to disaster, just as we knew that the stock bubble of the 1980s and 1990s was going to end badly (the money that drained out of stocks went into real estate).

Thanks, Paul. It's very like the South Sea Bubble, but even more like the 1929 WCCrash. Plus there's the example of the poverty of Britain in the 40's (when everything had to be rationed) and early 50's following a war. And then the Marshall plan bail-out for Britain, Japan and others.

The present wars, unfortunately have a lot to do with it too,IMO. America can't afford them. So it's borrowed even more.

As, we're told, has been the general untrammeled Govt borrowing to keep down taxes (UK and USA) (i.e. trillions from China) as well as unrestrained private borrowing.

So, many people will be losing their jobs/businesses/houses/life savings/pensions.

I just hope against hope that Bimbo Palin, with her belief in witchcraft among her fundamentalist views (see YouTube) and her followers' chant bomb, bomb, bomb Iran, and her almost complete lack of knoowledge of just about everythimng, won't end up in charge. I do agree though that she was well coached for the debate, to avoid questions she didn't know the answer to, and to look straight at the camera.

Jab

Palin it reminds of Stephan King's "dead zone" and Jerzy Kosinski's "being there".

Bimbo with Guns*


* on Gorillaz - kids with guns.

I wouldn't say that Dubbya was 'trying to do something about it at last' - he didn't actually have much option and I doubt very much whether he had anything to do with it at all, other than 'read' what was put under his nose.

I doubt if it will matter much at all who is the next president. I don't recall any 'great leaders' ruling of the decline of empires and (if I am completely honest) I am not in the least bit sorry to see this one on the way out.

That does not mean that I have no sympathy for the innocent victims of an imploding system - I do, but to use a bush-administration 'weasel-word' - there is 'collateral damage'.

Re Post 3. To think that at a time like this people are so concerned and pedantic (Sorry, Pedantic), to bother about political correctness. It beggars belief. I was only explaining the role of wars in these things and mentioning Britain's post-war Austerity and rationing, and the fact that in the end, America bailed out us - and Germany and Japan etc. You haven't missed much folks. Oh, and I also thanked Paul for responding.Perhaps 'responding' was too sensual for them. And as well, of course, I dreaded the idea of Palin with her fundamentalist belief in witches (see YouTube and elsewhere) taking ultimate power if anything happens to McCain. Perhaps it was that:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kj-on3kfWuE

Could be a fake but I honestly doubt it.

This one's much better. And more scary for America.

He actually mentions 'Sarah Palin'. It was the time of the guvernatorial election in Ala-a-ska.

Sorry - it's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0utkTp7DTw&NR=1

Sorry to keep on - but this is even better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biP3Wdd7PRI&feature=related

I'll stop now!

Jab

I'm waiting to see how the markets react to the debates and the bailout. This plan was just the beginning. Congress intends to
rewrite the laws governing mortgage lending when the new Congress convenes next January. I would call this crisis a nail in the coffin of deregulation. There will be more.

Yes, just the beginning, and no-one knows if it'll work. There'll be more nails in coffin of the super-free deregulated Reagan-Thatcherite ideologically pure market before we#re done - our government is busy on belatedly regulating too - not just on mortgages but credit generally - and bail-outs as well - before we're finished, it seems to me.

All depending on China lending our governments more money so they don't run into immediate credit problems themselves. There's quite an irony in that. Someone, our children probably, will have to pay it all back, one day.

I think you're right in emphasising the mortgage market though. That's where it started, and it must be basic to the cure.

Jab

Sadly (for Americans), I don't think that China, India etc will feel the slightest 'need' to bail out America. It is only Americans and american-ists who live under the illusion that 'America HAS to dominate the world'.

I think that the rest of us will be quite happy to get along with our lives without being constantly told what to do by people who should take a long, cold look at themselves before telling ANYONE what to do.

Let's face it - it has been about the shortest 'global empire' in recorded history - one of the bloodiest, admittedly - but probably now over. The bandwagon has stopped!

You know I was going to make some comments about how much I dislike Sarah Palin, and how much she worries me, but the thread has already degenerated into America bashing.

I have not yet seen the Presidential deabte but I have read on the teletext views that people have very polarised views about the candidates they either very for them or very against. At the start very few people were interested in the candidates but a poll about a month ago showed that 50% were for Barak Obhama.

I'm not sure which was more worrisome: Nancy Reagan consulting an astrologer for guidance with her life, or Ms. Palin feeling that prayer can protect you against witchcraft. I'm still working it out in my head whether all of us have some harmless idiosyncracies that one should be nonjudgmental about, or whether we should hold the people who will lead us to impossibly high standards. Any thoughts on that, anyone?

JEllen, you're being too sensitive. I've checked back, and not one post is anti-American. Anti the politicians etc. and the mad ideas of Palin, which is important because she's only a 72 year-old man's heartbeat away from the White House. And the spiritual guru of her church seems to think that turning the country into a skewed theocracy, an anti-Christian form of Christian state, and ruining the schools, the political process etc.(on one of the tapes) would be part of their 'mission'. There are more tapes on this on YouTube.

I think that answers your question from my point of view too, Paul. None of us is anywhere near perfect, but would our faults and untested beliefs seriously endanger anyone, e.g. America and the world? Some think that pressing the nuclear button and getting Armaggedon would be a good thing for example. Whereas having an Amy Winehouse hair style is harmless.

I'd love to hear your views on Sarah Palin, JEllen.



Jab

Here, here!

I had (obviously incorrectly - as ever) rather assumed that:

"It's becoming clear to me that we're in such a terrible position in this country partly because of 8 years of Bush. I'm glad he's trying to do something about it at last. Blair/Brown too - an end to boom and bust?"

the topic was a little wider than just whether or not one liked or disliked the vice-presidential candidates. One of the advantages of NOT having a television is that I had a perfect excuse NOT to watch their debate and can read what little I like to about their 'match'.

I read little but the headlines. What little I know about 'Bimbo' is that she can shoot and skin a moose, believes in witches (so do I have was married to two) and has held a passport for about a year.

After looking through the cv and 'achievement record' of the present incumbent of the highest office over there, I should think that it qualifies her admirably for the job of stand-in.

As for the other one - I don't even know how to pronounce his name - so he can't be ALL bad.

I've taken an oath not to comment on candidates or platform issues for this upcoming American Presidential election, until after the inauguration, this election only.

On the other hand, on current administration issues, I distinctly recall remarking at the time of the outset of the anti-terrorism campaign that its a grievous mistake to get into any high volume overseas action without an anti-inflation plan in hand at the outset... ...told 'em so!

Someday we may have economic planners sensible enough to keep inflation under control on a routine maintenance basis, annual re-valuation, say June of each year, so that the value of the currency is adjusted so that its mean trading rate is the same as it was at the beginning of the preceding re-valuation period.

Unfortunately, many market cheats have learned to exploit inflation for competitive advantage, a process about as dishonest as printing one's own money, and may be expected to resist reform of monetary policy on that account.

Since the net trend with changes in value of the currency is inflationary (as long as there have been money economies), that would mean that prices over all would be marked down in the stores, making for exciting "inflation fighting summertime sales", giving the economy a boost just when it needs it most.

part of Jab's 1st post - I'd be interested in everyone's responses, if they have any.

I will not comment on any political situation, that demeans the Muppets

Thanks for your response, Jabberwock. Does it mean nothing, then, that Sarah Palin, if elected, would have to solemnly swear that she will uphold the Constitution, which requires separation of church and state? The U.S. is not going to become a theocracy, no matter what the Minister of Sarah's church thinks. He (I assume it's a he?) is not on the ballot anyway, Sarah is. I've been to church services in many different churches, and never ever agreed with everything the ministers said. In some cases I disagreed strenuously, but respected the sincerity and intelligence of the clergymen involved. Then again, a few of them were so undynamic that they put me to sleep.

When Mitt Romney ran for governor of Massachusetts, there were many voters who were concerned that his Mormon religion would cause problems. No such problems arose. I'm not saying that he was a great governor, but he certainly upheld the Constitution, and was a very hard worker.

If I have reservations about Ms. Palin, they are more concerned with the judgment of the man who chose her as his running mate. What does it say about McCain that he would entrust such an inexperienced candidate with such an important job?