h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

We are an intelligent an enlightened lot here at H2G2, promise!

The Baha'i idea sounds quite reasonable to me as a kind of ambivalent agnostic. I certainly do believe that people such as Buddha and Jesus existed and that they were enlightened individuals with unique ideas and insights that some might class as divine revelations.

Don't know what/who/if God IS, but I think there is a spiritual aspect to life that is missing in most modern societies because we are far too busy with material stuff.

Each to their own I say, just don't hurt anyone in the process

(Obviously, unless they live in Kettering!!!!!!)

Hmmm, sounds like a fairly nice open religion. It is good to recognise that each "prophet", regardless of which religion ended up adopting them had an important message for humanity.

But why not go further. Everyone in the world has a message and something to teach the rest of mankind, we all do it in our own way, and to varying degrees of success. The examples you mention are surely just those who were very successful at putting across their piece of the message.

We are all spiritual beings, and we all form part of this living universe. I don't see why people need to raise one person (or a group of people) above everyone else, and say that these people are more spiritual / perfect / Godlike than everyone else. To take my own words to their furthest extent, a hedgehog can inadvertantly teach you more about your own spirituality than a thousand sermons.

For myself, I find nature to be far more spiritual than manmade religion. After all, nature itself is the true route of man's religions. All tribal religions stem from the desire to comprehend the changing of the seasons, night and day, the provision of food. for me, when I am in the mountains or out in the desert, it is there that you find your place in the universe.

Rashelle, where does the Baha'i faith stem from? Does it have it's roots in one of the main faiths?

*I was going to continue but am tied up (!)at mo so will leave it at this*

Hrm.. a religion without followers. I see that it maybe the way in todays unenlightened times. I like the idea that each faith has, in a way, provided what appears to be the same person, giving a twist on what is needed at the time. I always thought that there had to be some link in there somewhere. But are there any religious days, are there teachings to follow and is there a heaven and hell model to beleive in. As time has gone by, the idea of heaven and hell seems to be left by the wayside. There is no more up and down (unless you count the concept in SOUTH PARK, the movie), in fact, I think a common view is that your soul would just be taken. I have always held the belief that I would come back. I think that I am one of those souls that couldn't stop helping people and I'd either be Quantum Leaping from body to body or would just walk the Earth like Highway to Heaven. I just like the concept of being around to see all that I may miss, even if I have to do some 'Angelic' time to do it. But having this view, does that mean I believe in God, is it a religion to follow, or is it just the feeling that I don't want to go away (I always think that I would turn up at my own funeral, just to see who was there and how I went).

Maybe the concept of multiple gods is the right one to follow. After all, one guy doing the job would mean he'd be damn busy (and would make Christmas parties a bit boring), so would the multiple gods have angels or heralds to help. Would there be warring fractions amongst the gods, and how would that effect mortal man? Would one god be jealous because another had more followers?

On the subject of this forum, I do believe that it is one of the busiest in the Guide, and it has rasied a few questions (I mentioned the subject in work today and it raised a few eyebrows, most of them think that chat forums are full of guys wanting to pick up other guys who pretend to be women). This is showing that through a media, people from all over the world can, and do, have sometimes different views on the same subject, but still feel the same. So far, we havn't had anyone totally religious post anything against us, however we should expect it. Backlash is one of the main fighting tactics of todays relgion, having left church many years ago (for two reasons, one was I was fed up of the preaching to the converted attitude and the other was that they complained to the local cinema when it showed Ghostbusters, saying that the film showed a heathen attitude to the souls of the dead), I realised that some of the teaching of the church had almost be brainwashed into me, even feeling guilty for not going. The feelings left eventually, but, even noe, sometimes it rears its head and I can feel the need to pray for my sins welling up.

The great thing about the forum is that you can see many different religions from many view points, Rashelle appears to have found a religion that answers many questions and may be a following of the future, its a belief I had never heard of (even though I have studied many relgions in the hope of finding the answers), and I shall be trying to find out a whole lot more about it.
But does belief make for spirit?
I don't think so, in fact I would say that you can have no belief and be spirtual, yet have belief with no spirit. They are as interchangable as partners. You may have one for years, then time just changes your view. You may just require one from time to time. But (and being single, I know the problems) all, belief, spirituality and partners can be very hard to find at times.

Hm... I thought this was what I was saying, Si... What did you think I was saying?

Everyone in the world has a message and something to teach the rest of mankind, we all do it in our own way, and to varying degrees of success. The examples you mention are surely just those who were very successful at putting across their piece of the message.

Preach it, brotherman! Yeah, it's been my policy for years to assume that everyone has had some experience that I haven't, and that other perspectives can teach me something. Schizophrenics are great for that kind of stuff if you can get them to talk to you. I don't recommend crack-heads, 'cause they're hard to get rid of. Evangelists are about the best, since they're invested in their beliefs and have an agenda, but my wife has forbidden me from speaking to them, claiming that I "toy with them cruelly." Maybe that's why I like these lists so much : )

Prior to discovering Discordianism, about 14 years ago, I considered myself a gnostic christian, then I picked up the Tao Te Ching in my high school library and discovered eastern philosophy, which I still study. Not being in the slightest regard Chinese, I can't say I'm a Taoist with a straight face, but as best I can reckon it the Tao is Eris without a sense of humor. Or perhaps the Eris is the Tao straight up, but the comedy got lost over hundreds of years of scholarship in China and a translation into English. (For those of you arriving late in my madness, Eris is my religion - Greek goddess of chaos, foxy chick, bad reputation...)

Anyhow, my point is that everyone has something different to say about the world, and since (as I believe) all things are true, it behooves me to hear them all. Too bad I won't have time. That's why people have prophets and television, I think...

Oh, by the way, a very funny (and therefore very smart, I've found) friend of mine once told me that America's official religion was a triune pantheon: Santa Claus, Mother Nature, and the Almighty Dollar. His argument was that if you observe American media, you'll find that every other religion is spoken of in cultish terms - that the reporter isn't a member of whatever religion he/she belongs to and would never join such a one, but no one ever questions the power of these three. Kind of interesting to note that there seems to be a peculiar animism going on behind the scenes for everyone, even so-called atheists. This religion will never be acknowledged by America at large, but there are many more adherants than there are to any organized religion...

RavensCross
I agree very much with your differentiation between belief and spirituality. In the Psychology of Religion, it is split into 3: Extrinsic, Intrinsic, and Quest. Extrinsic religiosity is religiosity because of the social support it provides both in terms of frindship, social standing, acceptance, power etc. Intrinsic is the acceptance of rules of faith, commandments etc, and Quest is the seeking of answers to metaphysical questions and the search for self-awakening.

For my thesis these scales formed a part of my work, in terms of recording where on these scales a diverse group of people fitted. The interesting thing was that on the Quest scale (what you could call the spiritual scale) there was no significant difference between those who claimed to be agnostic and those who were part of a strong Christian grouping within the university.

What I'm trying to say is that spirituality is a state of self, not a gift of faith.

I may get shouted at for this, but I feel that the reason we "need" Gods is because we feel insecure in a universe that is getting along quite fine all by itself and wouldn't care two jots one way or the other whether we continued being a small blip in it's infinite expanses or not. By having a God, or some Gods, we bring ourselves right into the middle of the universe, and we have a protector from the terrifying forces of nature.

What do you think?

On a final humerous note: If there is a God, and he watched over creation/evolution, what did the dinosaurs do wrong?

I may get shouted at for this, but I feel that the reason we "need" Gods is because we feel insecure in a universe that is getting along quite fine all by itself and wouldn't care two jots one way or the other whether we continued being a small blip in it's infinite expanses or not. By having a God, or some Gods, we bring ourselves right into the middle of the universe, and we have a protector from the terrifying forces of nature.

Exactly. Personally, I feel that there IS Goddess, and that She doesn't care two jots one way or the other about anything. Although She does like to have her ego stroked every now and again (and Who doesn't?), am I likely to be able to affect what an ancient, incomprehensibly vast and fickle consciousness feels? Not likely, my friends, not likely. So I just go on my merry way and partake of no hot dog buns. Out of respect.

I used to be a Methodist but now I'm an Anglican - mainly becuse the music is overall slightly better, and singing is one of my favourite pastimes

As to why I'm a believer, well I lay myself open to ridicule when I tell you I believe because God told me to. It was just like that, at an evangelical gathering. A bit like the Lottery with that finger: "It's you!" - and no, I can't explain it. And I am an engineer, so just about as pragmatic as they come. I even drive a Volvo, that's how pragmatic I am

It's funny, when that happens to you in a location specially set aside for the occasion (church, an evangelical gathering, what have you), you're saved, but when it happens to you in a neutral public space (like a cajun restaurant), you get put in a mental ward and given medication. Maybe that's why I'm not a christian anymore...

Well, I wouldn't know about that. I'm British, so any indecorous behaviour in public is to be viewed with suspicion anyway.

Hm

Well, what was your behavior when your god told you to believe in him? Could it be described as indecorous?

Myself, I wept uncontrollably into my corn fritters and fried chicken. Kinda funny looking back on it...

Indecorous? Me? I went to a school founded in 948 AD, I wouldn't know how to do indecorous

Are you saying that you were persecuted? Honest inquiry.

okay...joining in kinda late... jus spent the last half hour pouring over the postings... and i just wanted to get one thing off my chest. if god exists "thanks for making me a world to live in and i'm sorry i used to be such a punk kid". and if he doesn't exist, it doesnt really matter to me because i'm so scared of the judicial system i'm going to continue being a good law-abiding citizen.
honestly, though. if this question could be answered, it would have been answered long long ago. two heads isnt always better than one because two heads tend to muddle things more than one. a better question is "does it matter if god is dead?". and then i think the answer will be different for each person. for me, no, cause i live by a good set of morals i have developed thru relationships and other experiences and no matter what religion i look at, they all seem to say i have been a relatively good boy. so if god does exist, and he is still alive and he sends me too hell regardless, well, what the hell am i going to do about it? and that said, i think i will go back to banging my head against the wall. taataa.

Let me clear up a few things. First of all, the Baha'i faith does not stem from any other religion, but is in unity with them all.

Secondly, the Baha'i Faith is the second most widely spread religion in the world after Christianity. There are millions of followers. The Baha'is come from nearly every country, every ethnic and religious background, and from every walk of life.

*grin* sorry that you haven't heard of it. check out http://www.us.bahai.org

and to reply to Researcher #whatever, where exactly did you get these morals from? what is the purpose, the meaning of life? (i'm being serious here) and if there is no purpose, then why do you follow these morals?

To the rest of you: just to clarify a little bit, is there anyone who is actually on a religious search or have you all given up?

Thirdly, uh, hmmmm....wait a minute...it'll come to me...RATS!

does anyone know the meaning of life? like, the real meaning? i sure dont. i am just trying to get through it while pissing off as few people as possible [preferably making people happier] because i have noticed that makes me happy. which is where my morals come from. they are not based strictly on laws or religious doctrines or what my mom told me was the difference between right and wrong. what i see as "good" is what makes the majority of people involved really really happy...and then, the people more important to me [ie. girlfriend, friends, parents, co-workers, etc. tweak those numbers a bit. given this simulation: my girlfriend and i are standing outside my apartment. a bee flies around her head, scaring her because, well, she's afraid of bees. i would kill the bee to make her happier. if it was just me, however, i would not kill the bee because i would prefer to see it live. however if the bee was scaring someone a lot less important to me, like a stranger, i wouldn't kill it. i would leave them with that choice because i consider my happiness and the bee's continued survival as more important than the stranger's happiness. therefore, depending on the situation, i see killing the bee as moral and i see not killing the bee as moral. this situation is similiar in almost everything i do, interchanging the important person [my girlfriend], the situation posing a choice [the bee] location, etc... that is how i have developed my morals... they make me happy. they make others happy...etc. =]

My wife and I are relaxed agnostics. We don't know if god exists, but we're not in a hurry to find out either.

If the bee dies as a result of stinging you or your significant other, is that a failing on your part or the bee's?

If the protection of life (animal life, most people think vegetables don't count) is a spiritual necessity then preventing the bee's death by not aggravating it is surely a priority.

16 Hours ago I said a few small words, now look what's happened. So many points to answer and question!

It now appears that people in the forum are willing to talk about thier religion. Very well, but we have to be carefull not to start the 'Well, mine is better than yours' fight. I still believe in the difference between spirit and belief and I hold with the feeling that I am more spiritual then believing at the moment. Will that change?
There was the mention on evaneglists, I have seen Billy Graham talking to a crowd. This wasn't a small crowd, it was 20,000 people. Here, in the UK, that is a crowd. He talked about when 2 or more gather in my name, I shall be praised, and then told us to go and gather more people for God... The man was talking to 20,000 people and he wanted MORE. The fact that he charged people to see him had nothing to do with it, I suppose!

Given that each of us may view any religion in many ways, the question should be, what is religion. Is it a combined view of many people's view of one way of life or is it a set of rules by which some people live thier life, some following more rules than others. You only have to look at the number of sacred texts and tales in all religions to understand the question. Even Zen beliefs set down rules to live your life by.

The point about the bee is interesting, he apparently give more views to the bee than a strangers life. If a bee is scaring someone 'Less Important?', what makes that person less important, the way they look, the way they dress, what about the way they look at you. However, you feel you have morals. Are they greater than other people, do they effect. You will save your partner, but not some one else. The good samaritan view doesn't hold up any more does it. Don't get me wrong, personally I'd run from the bee, having a inbuilt fear of anything that can or once had tha ability to kill me!

I thought you were saying that science only produces theories and using this as a stick to beat science with (I should have known better w.r.t our previous communications.) Reading again, I think you were saying that that's what bad scientists say and you were using that as a stick to beat bad scientists with, in which case I'll just shut up.

Nice website Rashelle.

"First of all, the Baha'i faith does not stem from any other religion, but is in unity with them all."

Yeah I wasn't being clear there, I was after the socio-cultural origins of the religion, which seem to be from within the dissident communties within the Ottoman Empire. Quite similar at a socail level to Christianity vs. Roman Empire / Bhudda - people's prince vs Hindo Hegemony.

"the Baha'i Faith is the second most widely spread religion in the world after Christianity"

I assume you mean number of countries, rather than number of followers.

"and to reply to Researcher #whatever, where exactly did you get these morals from? what is the purpose, the meaning of life? (i'm being serious here) and if there is no purpose, then why do you follow these morals?"

I'm not sure if you mean me here but I'll give you my answers. Morality comes from experience. Even the morality within religion comes from the experiences of the people and social climates which shaped that religion. Mohammed's teachings are a classic handbook of desert survival. Ramadan teaches endurance, cloven hooved animals were more likely to carry diseases and the meat goes off quickly etc. etc.

So, my morality comes from my experiences, those of my "tribe" and from my knowledge and understanding of the universe within which I exist. I don't need a purpose to follow this moral code. I follow it because I feel I am a better person when I do, and I feel that I strengthen those around me when I do. I don't need a religion to tell me that it's wrong to hurt people. Nor do I need a religion to tell me that we are all wonderful spiritual beings, and that we should all be cherished, especially since most religions will qualify that and say, some of us are wonderful beings, some of us are more wonderful than others, and we should do what they say, and some of us are horrible and will burn in hell.

My life is a quest, a search, but I wouldn't call it a religious search. I am deeply interested in religions, but more from a cultural and social perspective.

PS. Like the Social Laws, very emancipated, I can see why the faith fits in well with current world situations and thinking.