h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

As I suspected getting at the truth is always a long winded process.

One sad thing is that when we at last find the "truth" we will not be able to tell if it is REALLY the "truth". Meny things that seem very true is not. One reason to this is that lies always are designed to fit a purpose. Even logically complete reasoning can prove to be untrue. Example:

If an object is moving towards something else it will, after some time, have half the way left to go. Then, some time later, it will have half of half of the way left to go. It will continue to do this until it is very close. But it will have to do something REALLY radical to ever actually reach its goal.

This is pure logic. But time after another it fails to be true.

This means that if we eventually find the truth, we should be very suspisious about it all. If it seems to fit very well, or even perfect, it is probably a lie.

Aristotle said that the starting point of knowledge (and therefore truth) is to understand that we know nothing.
He may, of course, have been lying...

Duhhh...my head's all floppy...

It's not our problem

you never know somr turn of events could make it some-ones or anothers problem

It could become a SEP (Somebody Else's Problem) and we could all become invisible.

I can't seem to see the rest of this conversation.
I don't think that's my problem though.

What is my truth may not be your truth, it's a bit of a question of perspective, and since we don't know what we don't know, we'll never know if we know the whole truth.
Now my head hurts.

Sometimes I think I know enough stuff. Then someone comes along and says "Read this book -it'll blow your mind." And it generally does and I have to sit down for a bit and chew and swallow all of the new bits until I think I know enough stuff again.

Imagine an object like a ball bearing. No matter how you turn it always looks the same.
Now imagine an object like a flat arrow. You turn it over and it looks the same (half a turn).
A toy soldier needs a full turn before you see it as the same again.

In "A Brief History of Time" they talk about sub-atomic objects that you have to turn round TWICE before you see them the same.

I've got my napkin tucked into my collar and my knife and fork at the ready but I can't even get this one into my mouth!

I think the strangest form of truth is that which is found in the courtroom. No-one really knows what may or may not have happened - least of all the witnesses. This is because each person will place their own slant or values upon their recollection of events. The court will listen to all that is said and presented and then may make the "correct" judgement on the facts as they are "known" at the time. For example:

Anyone remember the Birmingham Pub Bombings? I think it was this case where the defendants were convicted based on substances found on their hands after a forensic exam. It turned out that you could get the same stuff on your hands afer doing a spot of baking in the kitchen and since that was where the explosives were found, the defendants were later aquited. Where's the truth in all that you may say? Well, what is the truth? The only definition I can think of is this:

THAT WHICH IS MOST PLAUSIBLE.

Well what someone thinks is plausible.... brings me back to my point about perspective I think.
(Vesty - Brief History of time - did my head right in , practically after every paragraph I had to stop and ponder for half an hour, still can't get a lot of it into my head!)

On the Birmingham Six thing the substance found on their hands was found on the wrapping of playing cards. The accused had travelled together to a funeral and played cards on the train.

There were several bombings in Birmingham following the tragic pub bombing. These were fire bombs thrown into Catholic Churches in the city in reprisal. The "truth" for many of the people of the city was IRA=Irish=Catholic ergo The nearest Catholic Church to where I live is full of IRA terrorists.

For a long time afterwards trains and buses were much quieter as anyone with an Irish accent was afraid to speak in case someone started attacking them for carrying out the bombings.

Vestboy, you may understand what I was trying to explain with this guide entry better than I do. My message tends to get lost in the medium, but the bottom line for me is it's when people believe they know the truth without any question that I question their truth. If they know to the point of believing it's alright to kill anyone who disagrees with them or is different from them, for me that nullifies their truth.

Unfortunately this happens every day, and not just in Ireland. Everywhere. It happens where I live too, with gang activity violence that is not as cut and dried. It's not predominantly religious disagreement. Protestant vs. Catholic. Compared to what happens in the streets of America's urban sprawls, I'd find religious intolerance almost preferable.

In some parts of the U.S., it's which friends you favor. It's whether or not you honor the right code and respect someone's adopted family. It's whether or not you 'belong'. It depends on the color of your skin and the kind of music you listen to and the types of clothes that you wear whether or not they're going to 'jack with you' today. And sometimes the lines drawn between one group and another are so thin that you can't tell whose side you're supposed to be rooting for. In actuality, both sides are so equally wrong that the differences they fight over are laughably irrelevant to everyone but them.

I heard a rabbi recently say that we spend too much time focusing on the differences in one another, when we should celebrate what we already have in common. We don't all have to be alike to get along. We don't all have to hold to the same truths.

"Everything's a lie and that's the truth." - Meat Loaf / Jim Steinman

Zach, hi. I think your analysis is absolutely on target. We have seen tv progs about the rise of gangs in parts of America.
One of the analyses was that there was a yawning gap in many of the young people's lives and that was the love and respect of a family - so they go out and find that love and respect from their peers.
The problem is that it is seen as a "jealous" love and respect and because I love and respect you I have to dislike and even destroy anyone who is not part of that love and respect.
the feeling of soidarity within the gang cannot be questioned. It may also be fuelled by a long history of exploitation by outsiders (economic, racial or otherwise).

The problem is, for me, that I quite like the idea of someone believing something so much that they would die for their beliefs but I don't like it when someone would kill for their beliefs.

Maybe the families of the gang members don't believe in anything much (and in their children in particular) and so a vaccuum is formed which is filled by the gang - where belief is absolutely concrete.

My worry is also fuelled by parents who teach their children that they are better than other people. Taught prejudice is real poison and this can be religious, racist, class based or a variety of other things.

You'll never get away from prejudice it's largely what makes the world go round. If you don't believe me then watch the news on telly tonight or listen to people's conversations in the pub.

You might be right, sadly. My own aim is to identify my own prejudces. It's common for me not to realise I have one until it's challenged.
Is there such a thing as right and wrong?
Does it depend on the side you're on?

Well that sounds like two lines from a Bob Dylan song but do you know what I mean?

I think it's to simple to say that truth is always relative. It's much more challenging to say that somewhere, there is something absolutely true. Maybe only something little like, "smoke gets in your eyes" or "how many roads must a man walk down? 42". Everybody gets turned on by thinking they can not be 100% sure about anything.
Maybe it's not that simple. If only something little was true, then things would have a whole new perspective.

(Another thing: How many of you would react if I ended this text with stating that "I LIE" ? )