h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

My son is 5, nearly 6.
Incognitas I hate to say this, but I really think you need to chill out a bit. To question someone else's sanity just because they do something that doesn't appeal to you sounds like bigotry to me.

Well, to me circumsicion also seem pretty cruel. The boy will never be able to get rid of it as with a piercing, and a bit with a tattoo. But it is one of those cases where calling it religion justifies it. I suppose you could also call the female circumsicion religious in some way, and then cry out dsicrimination if they wouldn´t allow you to do it.

A guy from my old class had his circumcision video-taped. Luckily he never made the rest of us watch it

Ok Mina please explain to me why anyone would mutilate their genitals?
I tried to watch a programme the other day about men who want to be castrated so badly that they organise it over the internet(cos'no self respecting doctor will perform such an op).They organise it with someone who gets sexual pleasure out of performing this this..there are no words for it.However I can see that it is their body and they have a right to do what they like with it and somone has the right to enjoy the performing such an act.Doesn't mean that they aren't sick and insane though.

Mina, I am coming to agree with you about piercing the ears of very small children.

Incognitas, I respect most of your views, and I certainly respect your right to hold them, but I hate it when personal attacks start flying in these forums.

Back to the origial topic:

We seem to be coming back round to the issue of consent - whether adults have the right to pierce the ears of their babies, or circumcise their sons and daughters; and at what age someone has the right to take those decisions for themselves.

Lets face it, some people are born middle-aged, and others just never grow up.

I must admit, 14 would seem ok to me for ear piercings, and 16 for other piercings, and 16 or 18 for tattoos and scarification. But that is just how it seems to me. Who are any of us to make judgements on behalf of someone else?

Ben(if I may call you that) please look at posting 6 and you will see why I got annoyed with Mina.I perhaps over reacted but I still cannot accept that she would think that it was ok for a parent to allow a child to do such a thing to their body when it is a parents DUTY to ensure the health and wellbeing of their child.I have never at any time said it should be banned for adults so why I keep being told to chill out on this subject beats me.People abuse themselves in all sorts of ways.If someone cuts themself because they have low self esteem are we to be quiet about it or do we speak up?If someone is taking drugs to the detriment of their health should we not speak up?
If someone half kills someone for sexual pleasure should we not speak up?And if we do this for anyone we should do it for those who are deemed children.

Icognitas - of course you can call me Ben.

Reading all of Mina's postings she seems not to be particularly in favour of piercing, but to be adamant that it is up to the piercee whether they are pierced or not. (Is this right Mina? - I don't want to mis-represent anyone's views).

Of the examples you give, the first two differ from the third in the issue of consent.

On the subject of drugs - my mother was an alcoholic. My sister constantly nagged her not to drink; I decided that there was nothing I could do about it, and that she would be just as miserable sober as drunk - though presumably healthier. I believe that I was powerless to intervene effectively, and (rightly or wrongly) I therefore chose not to intervene.

I have no personal experience of cutting because of low self-esteem.

I really do feel your third example is not related to piercing, tatooing or circumcision. I someone half kills another person for whatever reason, then you are absolutely right, we should certainly speak up.

You are in a slightly different position from the rest of us, being
_in loco parentis_ during the day. So the issue of responsibility is a greater one for you than it is for many of us. You see children in bad situations, and I for one don't.

So should we intervene?

So much depends on the age of the child, its personal circumstances, the likely outcome of intervention, and so on and so on. Another way to look at it is to remember yourself as an early teenager. How effectively could anyone have stopped you from making your own mistakes?

I confess I am still struggling with why anyone would WANT to have their clitoris pierced, numbed or not. The peircing I have just had in the top of my ear is still tender 5 weeks later - as I found yesterday when having my hair cut. The thought of someone under the age of 16 having that done is definitely disturbing. But it is disturbing in the wider context of the girl's home life, educational achievements, and sexual circumstances, not in the more narrow context of consent. And it is this context that makes the issue of intervention so complex. But yes - I am disturbed by the idea of anyone that young having their clitoris pierced.

One of the waitresses at my local pub has a nipple pierced; nothing wrong in that, except that she is 15, and her father is a - ultra traditional and authoritarian - vicar. I felt uncomfortable about that, but had a certain fellow feeling for her, too. So what would be the outcome of intervening here?

Sorry to ramble. It is late, and I am off to sleep now.

Some parents are even more against this fad than me.I was teaching an all male maths group(why did I want to write grope I wonder)and I overheard one lad say to his neighbour that he had been thinking of having a nipple pierced but his mother had got wind of his decision and made it clear that if he went ahead she would not hesitate to 'rip' the ring out.Ouuuchh!

Some parents are even more against this fad than me.I was teaching an all male maths group(why did I want to write grope I wonder)and I overheard one lad say to his neighbour that he had been thinking of having a nipple pierced but his mother had got wind of his decision and made it clear that if he went ahead she would not hesitate to 'rip' the ring out.Ouuuchh!

How old were this group?

And what a nice mother to want to inflict pain, a horrible scar, and the risk of infection onto her son.

I think she was bluffing myself but has enough of an edge to make her son believe her.How long he's going to believe her is another matter.I'm not sure how serious he was about the whole thing anyway-if he backed off that easily maybe he's not that interested.As he was a year 11 I expect that he was 15/16.

I think she was bluffing myself but has enough of an edge to make her son believe her.How long he's going to believe her is another matter.I'm not sure how serious he was about the whole thing anyway-if he backed off that easily maybe he's not that interested.As he was a year 11 I expect that he was 15/16.

You're probably right, he might have been showing off and been happy to have an excuse not to go through with it.
I would encourage my son to wait a while longer if he was still at school and wanted it done, but once he was 16 I would only interfere enough to make sure he went to a good place. I think school is the wrong place for that sort of thing, but as I said before it's not my body.

One of mine lost it's jewellry and the hole healed within 12 hours, so a change of mind is very easy to cope with.

You're probably right, he might have been showing off and been happy to have an excuse not to go through with it.
I would encourage my son to wait a while longer if he was still at school and wanted it done, but once he was 16 I would only interfere enough to make sure he went to a good place. I think school is the wrong place for that sort of thing, but as I said before it's not my body.

One of mine lost it's jewellry and the hole healed within 12 hours, so a change of mind is very easy to cope with.

It must be catching, this double posting.