h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I thought to start a thread in a really positive way about America. There's been a fair bit of bashing over the last few years, mainly I think due to Bush.

I find the snippets I've caught on the news to be really exciting in the sense of the enthusiasm portrayed for the primaries. And these aren't even the elections to actually vote for the president. I know some is probably media hype but I find it all so heart warming to hear stuff from the democratic candidates. From my limited perspective I am most impressed by Hilary Clinton. And it might be nice to have a president again without something of the 'preacherman' about him. Obama and Edwards seem a bit like 'preachers'

Yes it feels really good to see so much positivity again on the news concerning American news. How it should be. The last 7 years has just been a blip really I think.

I'd be really interested to get a more in depth perspective on the candidates from American researchers. As I'm only going on fairly limited stuff from the outside. Also I'm not really clued up on the republican contenders.

Also what is the difference between a caucus and a primary? Why did Iowa have one thing and New Hampshire another?

Good on you Guys. Greatest democracy in the world.

A caucus is where everyone attends a sort of rally and they sort of put up their hands and gets counted for a particular candidate.A primary is a ballot box vote or in other words a secret ballot

Yes thanks for explanation. So I'm asking again, why does one state do it one way, and another, another?

Because America is not one homogenised, amorphous blob. The individual states vary widely in their approach to virtually every issue, which is why the usual comments about so-called American "attitudes" are crass ignorance. The Federal government has a much smaller impact in most American's lives than our centralised version.

Because they can! It's about the states' freedom to do things indepently. It's about freedom. (You see, this *is* the Go America thread )

Well, the factual truth about your question is, I would rather think, that historically, each state had done it their way, whatever suited them best at the time the state came into existence, and now they continue the tradition because it is a tradition, and traditions are a part of American tradition or something.

My own Go America thought: every time I was in the states, I had a sense of personal happiness and freedom - the impression that anything was possible, and that I could, in fact, do everything.

Y.

The blues and all it's musical children.

I also just read the entry on the filibuster A4814110

which is really quite odd and anything that odd has to be good

>>Because America is not one homogenised, amorphous blob.<<

didn't know that SWL I just thought with it being to do overall with an election for the president of the federation, that all states would do things the same. But as it's just the pre election stage, it makes sense. Me and my daft British logic, afterall we're so mental as to have the midlothien thing as part of our system.

Yes yelbak I also went to the states a couple of times when I was younger, around Philadelphia and up to Vermont near the border; one tiny bit. I absolutely loved the place and the people. It took me several weeks of coming back here to get over it and get used again to little Britain.

It'll be good if a few Americans start contributing. I invited Steve to give his input.

Thanks for the invitation. Unfortunately, I may have a more cynical view of America than expected. As you can tell from my handful of comments here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/classic/F19585?thread=4712606&skip=0&show=20 Regarding the current election, I don't really see it as much different than the last half dozen. The Republicans and Democrats are characterized primarily by partisanship, with the former giving speeches consisting of "Reagan, God, Reagan, God .." and the latter "Change, change, change, change ..." (to what?) Actually, some of the Republicans are starting to use the "Change" speech, and none of them are silly enough to embrace Bush. The candidates are "marketed" to a voting public that has come to expect to be "marketed at", rather than to have issues explained. Endorsements from Oprah, millions to "media consultants", more millions to televison ads, etc. And they all end up "going negative", i.e. attacking their opponents. So. As you might infer, I don't care much for any of the Republicans or Democrats, seeing them as two sides of the same counterfeit coin. I sometimes hallucinate about a third party candidate who is outside this bile-spewing history, but that has never worked. The two big parties have a choke hold on the massive corporate donations, everybody else is frozen out. Fortunately, America does not consist of just Washington, D.C. As an example, Congress has approved a wall along the Mexico border, a plan widely hated by the people who actually live there. One Texas resident said, "What we need is a wall around Washington." Amen.

I suspect you may have an ally here in SWL as regards your feelings about your politicians.

Me, I'm just an old fashioned gal who loves politics.

Go Hillary

I realize my post sounded sour, but there is room for humor, like this column by humorist Dave Barry "covering" the New Hampshire primary:

http://www.miamiherald.com/283/story/371826.html

The next to last paragraph is a little more serious, at least to the 99.5% of us who don't live in Iowa or New Hampshire ...

P.S. A good story about the Clintons, who were visiting Arkansas for a reunion. They stopped for gas and met an old boyfriend of Hillary running the station. As they drive off, Bill says, "See, if you'd married him, you be working at this gas station." Hillary says, "No, if I'd married him, he'd have been president of the United States."

From your link:-

Change -- 43 percent

Hope -- 28 percent

Hope For Change -- 17 percent

Hair -- 9 percent

Experience -- 2 percent

Dennis Kucinich -- 1 percent:

That's funny. Yeah I can understand to a degree the cynicism, after all it's child's play but it's just that I am so sick to the back teeth, I mean really sick of the interminable diet of bad news stories concerning the US, ever since Shrub got in. Obviously these stories are mostly connected with foreign policy, primarily the Iraq war. I remember the naieve optimism I felt in '97 when Labour first got back in here after the drearinesss of the Tory years. Blair got on great with Clinton and then Dubya got in, 9/11, Iraq, well everyone knows the story.... One long torrent of bad news. I even went to the US embassy in London the day after 9/11 to lay flowers I feel such an emotional warmth towards the US. These last 7 years have broke my heart. So you see it just feels so GOOD from where I am that the end is in sight, and the democrats seem to have some good people.

So please forgive my naivity about it all. It's just gut instinct of 'feelgood' again about the US.

I find it near impossible to think good thoughts of a nation who's illegally and on no evidence started two wars and killed millions of innocent pople, whilst simultainiously causing over-reaction of the same ilk world wide and other nations to reduce the reedoms their peoples once had, seeiningly in teh name of 'democracy' whilst at the same ttime we sit with a currency exchange rate whi8ch would make it cheapeare for me to fly to the US and buy some stuff and then fly back rather than just buying the stuff in the UK, if only I didn't have to hand every single personal piece of data that exists over to the US secret services in order to do so.
I long ago stopped having that* much to do with majorly mentally derranged people I know, I've come too close to being randomly stabbed or killed in the past to be bothered with that kind of thing anymore, quite why i'm ment to pay a country who's even more paranoid scitxofrenic than these pople I used to know any more time than that I just don't know.
Some rogue states just arn't worth talking to, they're too held up in their own insanity for the rest of the world to give em any help.

A lot of the negativity about the US is media-led. The BBC Washington correspondent seems to have a particular distaste for all things American. It's a particularly European attitude which I don't think is quite as prevalent in the UK, but it's going that way. Post WWII, Europe adopted a socialist path. America, as the greatest success story of capitalism, is resented. The media seize upon any story highlighting the weakness of capitalism in the US and present it in such a way as to seem indicative of the whole.

In the UK, there may also be a bit of resentment that the US hold a position as a world leader that was recently ours.

2legs - do you share the same dislike for Germany?

"I find it near impossible to think good thoughts of a nation who's illegally and on no evidence started two wars and killed millions of innocent pople"

Oh 2legs, you lost me at "nation". Must we disparage all things American because the hilariously inept powers that be decided that it quite likes fighting? In a "nation" of 300 million people (in 50-odd nominally independent self-governed states), less than 100 million would have voted the warmongers in. That's like saying "I hate the British nation because of those damnable Countryside Alliance folks".

Face it, Great Britain's place on the big table of world politics in the late 20th and early 21st century is entirely due to the fact that the Americans have helped us out financially, scientifically, culturally and politically. Why bite the hand that feeds, just because the left nut's a bit strange?

<>

I don't agree with that, maybe though that it is resented. By what measure do you think the US is the greatest success story of capitalism?

PS, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7174372.stm

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Just going back to the caucus versus primary question - I read somewhere in BBC news that caucuses used to be more common, but many states swapped to a primary system in the 1930s

It also tends to be the states which are large but have a relatively small, spread out population like Iowa and Nevada that have caucuses, while small, densely populated states, or those like California and Florida that have big populations that have primaries.

"A lot of the negativity about the US is media-led. The BBC Washington correspondent seems to have a particular distaste for all things American. It's a particularly European attitude which I don't think is quite as prevalent in the UK, but it's going that way. Post WWII, Europe adopted a socialist path. America, as the greatest success story of capitalism, is resented. The media seize upon any story highlighting the weakness of capitalism in the US and present it in such a way as to seem indicative of the whole."

I think most European resentment of the United States is built on an inferiority complex and a certain amount of jealousy (as well as genuine contempt for a lot of things the US does) but I don't think it's about "socialist" Europe disliking "capitalist" America. There isn't a single Western European country that isn't built on capitalism and Eastern Europe, by and large, has taken to it vicoferously. I also think that the media are more than happy to highlight capitalist failures overhere too. Marconi anyone?

Hey thanks for that explanation, HI. Makes sense. Most traditions happen for a reason.



Yes I don't understand SWL's analysis. It seems very much to me that all the negativity has occurred since Shrub became president, and his foreign policy since 9/11. I am a leftish person politically, many of my friends are too. Like me they generally like American culture and very much value its contribution to the cultural richness of the west. I don't get the feeling amongst people I know here in London that there's a particular resentment or envy towards America; just a huge dislike of the Bush administration. I like the basic social, cultural and economic situation here in London where I live. I have no sense of inferiority. It's just different. America has developed the way it has for historical reasons, which are relevant to its context. We have our culture and traditions, according to our history and context. I like both. Variety is the spice of life.

That's why I think 'travel' is so good. When you actually visit somewhere, you get to enjoy and understand to a certain degree why a country is one way, and your own another way. There's no need for envy or feeling one's own culture is somehow inferior, just different. (Maybe I've got too much of the arrogant English about me? ) I don't feel inferior to anyone or any other country. SWL's analysis in general for reasons of resentment towards the US, makes no sense to me and people I know.

Everyone knows the media is full of hype, but my impression from watching programmes like Newsnight, that there is no anti American hype on the BBC. It's just the *facts* of the last few years in terms of the foreign policy of the neocons.