h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

the usual interpretation of Zeus is: most powerful of all gods. Does anyone know that the hidden (and probably more accurate) meaning is that Zeus *is all things*, that Zeus is *the world*?

Does anyone know, for example, that everyone, even the gods, are driven by Ananke (Necessity)?

The Greeks weren't merely telling fancy tales: their mythology was a way of expressing their world view, and i think it deserves more serious attention than movies and pretty songs

-- db

Nah, not really.

Zeus was obviously the most powerful of gods (though it is sometimes said that the mysterious powerful called Fate could make decisions over Zeus), but he wasn't everything or all things. The Greeks were creative and they didn't make a single power representative of all power. Zeus was sky, lightning and eventually Justice. He was the grandson of the personified versions of Heaven and Earth.

Poseidon wasn't the sea any more than Hades was the Underworld (though it occasionally is given his name). All the gods had human qualities. They each had individual personalities, favorite animals and cities... The Greeks were very literal about this. The Romans had gods (based more on spirit) that represented things before they stole the Greek ones because they didn't have the same creativity of their neighbors to the east.

You are right about one thing of course. Their mythology was an important way to express their outlook of the world. Their world was flat, with the river Ocean around it, the Mediterranean Sea dividing it and the Black Sea as well.

the story goes, that Zeus when a baby was advised by Night to swallow the world, which he did: which is why he is the only one of the gods to know that in the beginning, there were only Time-without-beginning, and Ananke (Necessity).

And you misunderstand me: Zeus isn't the one and only power; Zeus is all that is, which is a very different thing. And it's Necessity that has power over Zeus, not Fate.

For a dashed interesting critique of everything you said, as well as a fascinatingly refreshing look at Greek mythology, read "The Marriage of Cadmus & Harmony". For reasons that will become clear if you read it, i'll prefer Calasso's interpretation of the Greeks much more than anyone else's.

-- db

The greek gods were anthromorphic? of course - that is the hinge upon which their relationship with humans turns! how does that prevent Zeus from being all things?

-- db

(apologies if this reply is a bit scatterbrained, I don't quite have the time for an appropriate response)

Fate certainly had power of Zeus. Hera once bitterly asked Zeus if he wished to keep a man alive whom Fate had chosen to die. Zeus knew he couldn't. But of course, many gods and powers were able to outmanouver Zeus. He was tricked pretty easily and occasionally outwilled. (Eros could easily make him do something he didn't want to do, like fall in love) What's interesting is that Fate overpowered him

Unfortunately, I haven't read 'The Marriage of Cadmus & Harmony' (and I don't own it and I'm not going to), but I don't think an interpretation could make a difference in the literal reading of the important stories by the important authors. As the world seems to agree now that this is not true, the only sources we have are these old documents, books and plays. We generally have to take these things literally (excluding the subtle literary hints... etc)

"i'll prefer Calasso's interpretation of the Greeks much more than anyone else's."

There's no way someone can (own his or her own) interpret ancient documents and stories better than everyone else.

"The greek gods were anthromorphic? of course - that is the hinge upon which their relationship with humans turns! how does that prevent Zeus from being all things?"

Zeus was indisputably the most powerful immortal. But he could not be all things. The Greeks envisioned their gods in a physical world. Mortals could venture into the underworld if they knew how to, Olympus was a real mountain... etc. The gods were real.

They were represented by things, but each had a domain and Zeus was not everything. Before battle, you might pray to Ares. You would seek truth from Apollo at Delphi. You might pray for suitable winds in a journey from Aeolus. You wouldn't pray to Zeus for these things. I would say he could conceivably be all things, but he delegated things to his brothers, sons, etc...

"There's no way someone can (own his or her own) interpret ancient documents and stories better than everyone else."

I only said that *I* prefer Calasso's interpretation because it makes more sense to *me*.

"They were represented by things, but each had a domain and Zeus was not everything. Before battle, you might pray to Ares. You would seek truth from Apollo at Delphi. You might pray for suitable winds in a journey from Aeolus. You wouldn't pray to Zeus for these things. I would say he could conceivably be all things, but he delegated things to his brothers, sons, etc..."

You said earlier that the greeks were creative: if they had an anthromorphic entity that was the world, isn't that an excellent example of creativity?

"The gods were real."
And how is that contradictory to what i am saying?

I presume that you wouldn't see any parallels between greek mythology and the (circular) hindu origin myths, then?

-- db

Just one pedantic point: it's not"Fate", it's "The Fates", the three sisters (blind, I think), constantly weaving and cutting the threads of Life.