h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Surely the computer exists as much as you or I do. The question is whether the thoughts that we have about the real world are any different from what goes on inside a computer. In other words does our conscious thought keep us in some different group from other 'thinking machines'... a no use of the G word.

What does it matter whether all this is real or not. It hurts when I drop a brick on my toe so i'm not giong to hit myself in the face with a frying pan because I believe that none of this is real. I see, feel and hear things whether they are real or just an elaborate lie or illusion by my being. So who cares if it's a lie or not? I'ts all we've got. I think people have been watching "The Matrix" recently.

I've heard lots of people raving about 'The Matrix'. Your right in the end it doesn't matter what is reality just do the things you like and not the things that hurt you. For that simple piece of philosophy you get and entry on my home page as a person who has helped the progress of humanity. Please visit my home page and see who else is there. I can always take you off the list.

but what if your senses are playing tricks on you? the brick that falls on your foot, might hurt your foot because it is almost expected.... but what if the brick really isn't landing on your foot?

OR... have you ever had a dream that seemed so "real" that it seemed like it actually happened, how is the dream separated from things that "really" happened?

Y'see this is exactly the kind of pseudo-metaphyical (meta-metaphysical ? ) toss to which my article alludes. It's just like the "If a tree falls over and there's noone to hear it, does it make a sound?" rubbish we impressed our friends with at school.

The *real* things are the things that *do matter* ! If your senses tell you that the pain in your foot was caused by the brick that you dropped what do you do? Do you (tutting silently at your oh so gullible psyche) put it to the back of your mind (what's one of those anyway, eh?) and "think nice thoughts" or do you look for a corroborating brick, torn skin, blood etc. - some _confirmation_?.

I think you've got it there, although I disagree with the "who cares" conclusion (but then, it wouldn't do for me to agree with everything.) I care and so do many others and (lo!) most of us agree on what's real and what's not and they are the things that matter. This PC is real, my car is real, this house is real. These are things that I can depend on to do predictable things, just like "real" things should.

The Matrix thing (good film, I enjoyed it) just doesn't wash, it's a non-sequiteur. Even if it were true, the little software people living their little software lives would all (well, most of them) agree on what was real and for them, that's what "reality" would be.

This seems to be out of date, but I couldn't resist adding a bit on the end.

I agree we are in impress your school mates territory, but there is some merit in exploring further. The definition of reality given is a rather simplistic view. While it is refreshing, honest and impressive to adults to admit that reality is what we percieve reality to be we are running away from the the arguement. 'We are not up to it' - in the words of some dead guy.

An element of Faith is required here. We should also be aware that the quoted meme should read 'Everything is possible, nothing is real'. The implication of this is slightly different than this discussion has so far illuminated. I suggest we all sit down and listen to the song 'Type' by Living Colour.

Can open. Worms everywhere. This sort of conversation is better suited to late night pub sessions.

Hi Dill

Glad to see we have another convert to the world of memes. I'm in a good mood at the moment as my page on evolution has just been accepted as official. It doesn't touch on reality and I cannot agree that every thing is possible

Congratulations - I'll go and have a look at it. I don't necessarily agree that everything is possible, but I thought I'd point out that the original meme was longer and a slightly different meaning was intended by it. Of course, variations are common as the idea passes from place to place. Always take note of the derivation, even if it is discarded.

For a good example of this see official UN translation errors that have occured. These can be very funny.

> The definition of reality given is a rather simplistic view.

There lies it's stength though, don't you think? Bring on Mr Occam and his sharpest blade.

> While it is refreshing, honest and impressive to adults to admit that reality is
> what we percieve reality to be

This could be confusing. It's not what we percieve as individuals, it's what we agree as a group that we percieve that is important. I could get stoned and believe that I could really fly. I would be (very) wrong.

> we are running away from the the arguement.

Why?

> An element of Faith is required here.

No if that were true, we'd be surrendering to nymphs and fairies and all kinds of bizarre claims.

You can believe that the Empire State building is made of glass, concrete and steel. I can believe that it is made of playing cards and cheese. As "ideas" they are both part of our individual realities, but one of them is _wrong_ - there is a "real" ESB, and you are right about it's construction.

BTW, you said "simple", "honest, refreshing and impressive to adults" and you still disagree?

> An element of Faith is required here. We should also be aware that the quoted meme should read 'Everything is
> possible, nothing is real'.

You're probably right. Mine's a pint

I went through this bit by bit, expanding on what I'd put & answer the points you raise.

I then read it through & realised how dull it was. I suggest that if we continue, it should be in a pub. (Possible?)

I've had a sudden change in mood, rather than enlightening, intelligent conversation, I'll go for the obvious - yes I do surrender to nymphs.

And occaisonally shepherds.

You touch on something I've been considering for quite some time. Memes seldon pass unaltered, the human mind will always analyse and try to add its bit before passing an idea on. I know this has nothing to do with reality but to be honest I feel out of my depth in this discussion.