h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Your Freudian slip is showing.
Look, the impression I get is, you're still holding a big grudge about everything that happened in the tearoom.

I'd like to try and resolve it, or at least understand your side of the issue, but not here.

If you want to email me, I can be reached through hotmail.com
by way of

blueicenine

No obligation.

Yeah, no.

I won't be snarky and pretend to assume that means you have no side, even though I don't really think you do.

Whatever. If you ever want to talk about this, like when you grow up, let me know.

...I say that, because, well, you're obviously still pouting.
>>Wait, I forgot that innuendo isn't allowed anymore.<<

You know what the issue was. And you keep trying to make it something else.

Grow up.

Yes, I do know what the issue is, it's about your girlfriend saying the most disrespectful and an insensitive thing I've ever read in that thread (F1749351?thread=654767&skip=20481&show=20), and your defending her her come what may.

Cal is seething, and so am I. Here is a guy who met and fell in love with someone, and after a few months he finds out that the someone he loves is going to die. Now he never even gets to see the person he loves at all, and he's never going to again. Not alive anyway. You think that's comparable to your situation? I agree with Cal, Yael does act like as if she's the only person who ever fell in love, and she comes across as really selfish because of it.

(F94899?thread=2893350&skip=140&show=20 I suggest you read it from there til the end of the thread)

She was wrong and she was hypocritical. As her boyfriend your duty is to show her that so that she can accept it and become a better person. It is not to support her when she is wrong. At least I'm grown up enough to realise that.

If you want to talk to someone about this then I suggest you talk to Cal.

Thanks for talking to me.
I read everything the three of you have been talking about, but it doesn't really bring any new light on the subject. Because I knew (figured) right away that Cal had read incorrectly what Yael had posted.

So I was assuming you has taken Cal's false assumption, rather then really read it carefully, as well.

So if that's the big issue, then could you please tell me where in here Yael acts selfishly?


"Okay, one last thing, and then I'll shut up...


Cal, if anyone killed the therad, I guess it's me, and I'm sorry.
I really didn't mean to ruin your fun. I was just feeling very uncomfortable with it. I guess I should have waited for things to calm down, instead of stirring up all of this.

But as for having the possiblity of being able to spend quite a long time in each others company -


Please don't bring that up.
I don't see how you can consider 18 days in one year to be a long time. I haven't seen him in months. And won't see him for months yet. And even then it would only be three weeks, before we are separated again, for who knows how long.

I understand how hard things must be for you two, and you know you have all my love and sympathy on this, but don't belittle like that what we go through.

Thank you.


*Shuts up from now on*"


She never brings up Cal and Jack, except in a positive. She never compares us to Cal and Jack.

And my feeling is, that while Cal said 'the possibility' of having lots of time together, and not the fact that we do, you and Beck should have been as upset with his comment as Yael was.

I know you don't get to spend as much time with Beck as you'd like to.

All she said, she said because Cal's comment had no bearing on anything that we were talking about, so please don't bring that up.

My feeling is, you should have thought the same.

But that's not what is important.

I want you to let me know if there is actually something in here (what Yael posted) that makes you mad, or whether you simply read it wrong.



What got me into all this, was mainly your attitude. I'm not saying you were wrong, because if you took offence to the above, then that's fine. Let me know.

But generally, when someone takes offence to something you say, you shouldn't tell them if they don't like it, they can go away.

(Purely hypothetical:if I ever made a homophobic remark that Cal didn't like, and he brought it up, I wouldn't tell him 'Don't like it, leave!' You just don't do that!)

I don't think the tearoom, or anywhere on this site, should ever be a place where anyone is made uncomfortable to go.

...this is getting a lot longer then I wanted. I'll try to finish up...

When you say something that hurts someone's feelings by accident, which is what happened, you should just say "Oh, sorry, didn't know that hurt your feelings, won't do it again."

So the fact that you seemed to jump right on the defensive, and try to justify your actions, made it seem like you intended to be mean.

I'm really hoping this is all just a stupid misunderstanding, during which everyone got spun up over nothing.

But if it's not, please let me know why you took offence to what was posted. Thankyou.

Hi Dan.

In reply to your request for my comments on this, I’m posting the following here as it seems a more appropriate location.

First point – at no time have I said that Yael was selfish. The worst I’ve stretched to is ‘thoughtless’ and ‘insensitive’, which I stand by. Yael should have realised that any comment about being apart, or not being able to see the person she loves, would upset Cal. Even if she had made the comment about something else, or addressed to someone else, it would still have been insensitive to mention it in front of Cal. Therefore Yael’s comment ‘And won't see him for months yet. And even then it would only be three weeks, before we are separated again, for who knows how long’ was highly inappropriate, as Cal will never see Jack again. Heck, I feel bad talking about me and Ben around him sometimes, because compared to Cal we have it easy. How many people do you think meet someone they fall in love with, and have the other person feel the same way? Not many, I can tell you. And to be young, and strong, and in love, makes us some of the luckiest people on earth. Cal has the prospect of the person he loves being wrenched away from him at any time, and that must be one of the hardest things a person can go through.

Second point – I agree with Cal’s comment about us having the possibility of lots of time together. Because we do – if not on a microscopic level, then on a macroscopic one. We might not be in the company of our loved one for a long time on a regular basis, but we have the potential of being together – part of a couple, and eventually perhaps even living together – for the rest of our lives. Cal certainly doesn’t have that hope – because hope is what we have, and it’s a powerful, good, inspiring thing. Cal has the exact opposite – fear; fear that Jack could die anytime. Whilst you and I, Ben and Yael are buoyed up by love, Cal is weighed down by it. He knows what the future holds, and it isn’t hope.

Third point – yeah, I know it’s harder for you and Yael than it is for me and Ben. But you’ve had 18 days together, you say? Well we’ve had less than that. Even though we live closer, that doesn’t mean we get to see each other more than you and Yael do. We still live on different islands. So when Yael said about Cal belittling your situation, that riled me a bit, because a) you and Yael have done it to Ben and I in the past, and b) I don’t see that Cal was belittling her. He was just pointing out how very lucky you and Yael are, that you even get to see each other ever. If anyone has a right to feel hard done by in the relationship stakes, it’s Cal. I don’t see his comment as belittling, just inviting Yael to appreciate what she has. It was also an attempt to get people to understand why Cal got upset about Yael ending the conversation that was going on in the tearoom. Some people use the internet as escapism, to make life a little more bearable. Cal may well be one of those people – and doesn’t he have a right to have a little fun every now and then? I agree that we were perhaps taking it too far, and I apologised for that in the tea room. But perhaps Yael, and you, could have been a little more tactful in your admonishments. Stomping down like you did doesn’t encourage people to listen to you, even when you’re right. And sugar always eases a bitter pill.

Fourth point – as I’ve already said, Cal’s point did have a bearing on the discussion, as it was his attempt to illustrate why it was important to him that the fun continued in the tea room. Like I said, you were right to take umbrage at that particular brand of ‘fun’, but to Cal it was just having a good time and he didn’t see the problem. So if you wanted it to stop, a little more tact could have prevented the situation escalating like it has.

Fifth point – you’re right about the tearoom being a place where people should be comfortable, and I agree that Ben was tactless in telling people to either put up with it or ignore it till it went away. But, and I know this is coming from the perspective of a person who knows Ben well, that was just his attempt to try to end the argument, the best way he knew how. OK, that doesn’t excuse it by any stretch of the imagination, but that’s just how Ben is sometimes, when he panics. He did try to make it up to you both later, by having that post about the blanket removed, but the Mods wouldn’t allow it and even told him off for abusing the system. So what else could he do? And we all do things we regret later. Ben can be hasty sometimes, and tactless and authoritarian… but in addition to that, the tea room is important to him, as is freedom of speech, and if he perceived a threat to either he would act hastily to defend them. *shrug* And, after all, we all say and do things we wish we hadn’t.

As you’ve read the discussion between me and Cal, you’ll know that I think that this is just a misunderstanding that got blown out of all proportion. I’ve been saying that all along, and I still hold it to be true. It’s very easy to misconstrue someone’s speech when it’s only in text, as you don’t get the tone or inflection or other stuff that lets people know the subtle meanings behind things. And so, as a misunderstanding, I hope we can resolve this and get past it.

Similarly, I hope that you can now see why I at least was more upset by what Yael said than what Cal said, and I hope you can understand my position on this.

I hope we can reach a resolution over this soon. I really can’t stand the conflict over this, especially when you, I, Yael, Ben and Cal should be understanding and supportive of each other.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, I appreciate it.

Cal hadn't misread what she said and neither have I. I can't point you to a sentence in her post that is out of line because it isn't a sentence that is out of line, it's the whole post. Yeah, I know that it's hard for you guys, but it's not comparable to his situation. It shouldn't have been brought up.

If there was a line that got to me most it was that even after Cal pointed out that he never gets to see Jack at all, she still didn't seem to get it, and would have gone on with her flawed argument were it not for the fact that she had promised to shut up about it.

When Cal brought the whole thing about Jack dying up I thought he was playing a card he shouldn't be playing as it seemed to have nothing to do with the argument. But when I thought about it, he is a guy whose life seems to be heading down a slope, and at the end of that slope is a cliff, and he knows that. It's ever-present in his mind. He wants to escape from that, and that's what this site *sometimes* provides for him. He said somewhere in the Meh! thread that Yael has been annoying him for some time by telling people what to do so he does his best to avoid her. Now I didn't have such a problem with her until the other day, but it does help me understand even more Cal's attitude. He is a man who is hurting and he wants to have fun to escape that hurt, and the two of you ruined that.

Now I can understand why the innuendo annoyed you, it has done me in the past. I can understand the argument about children in the thread, sure. As for making people uncomfortable or annoyed... If it had been a bunch of new people who arrived in the thread and did it, yeah, I could see myself doing as you did. But it wasn't, it was a bunch of regulars having fun and joking about, not meaning to upset or annoy people. For god's sake, Jack goes around trying to kill TB and nobody says a word, but add a tinsy winsy bit of smut to it and people complain.

I don't react well to people ruining my fun, especially since there have been countless times where I've gone to that thread and read page after page of pointless annoying crap yet I ignored it and didn't say a word because, as far as I'm concerned, it's none of my business and if those people are having fun then so be it. It's not my place to complain.

What we were doing in that thread is nothing like a homophobic comment, it's a silly comparison. And I wasn't saying that if people didn't like what was happening in the tearoom they should leave, I meant that they should ignore it because we all know that it would be back to normal the next day. I'm sorry if that didn't come out clearly.

As for the blanket post, I've apologised for that. I apologised as soon as I realised that you were offended by it. I've tried to have it removed but all I got was a warning from the mods telling me not to abuse the system. It was not meant as an insult, it was not intended to be a derogatory, it just was. But you took offence, so I once again apologise.


Another thing: 'I understand how hard things must be for you two, and you know you have all my love and sympathy on this, but don't belittle like that what we go through.'

I think I made my point about this the other night. I know that what you and Yael go through is way more difficult than what Beck and I go through, but that comment you made about walking the distance every weekend... I sooooo wanted to cause you physical pain right then.

Hey, you two. Thanks for posting your replies. I've mulled over them, but don't have enough time to reply, as I don't want to phrase anything wrong.

Which is not to say I really disagree with either of you, so don't worry...

I'll talk to you later, though.


Thanks.

No worries. Awaiting your reply with heady anticipation.

*brings vase for flowers*

Oh, well, it might be a while... got some shopping that needs to be done. But probably within the next day or so.

Mostly, though, I'm not really caring who said what, or who took it how.

I just want to ensure it doesn't happen again, and if anybody is still hurt, I want to get that taken care of.




How many times have people said we shoud have a smiley?

Well,

Firstly: GB I'm sorry for invading your personal space and I hope you will forgive me for it but I feel this has gone on long enough.

Secondly: NC the way both you and lady P 'waded' into the tea room and stomped your feet and told everyone to behave was well out of order, there are ways and means of asking people to do things and yours was not it. Now apart from the blanket statement, which I believe GB has said he is sorry for, there was nothing wrong with what was going on in there, it was just not your brand of humour, and in all honesty you should've waited for it to run it's course instead of causing all this fuss. Lots of things happen that we don't like and as adults we have to take a step back and wait for it to be over, Not throw our toys out of our prams in a strop like children!

Thirdly: you have both had it expained to you what Cal meant when he was talking about how lucky both you and lady P are and ben and FF are to have each other, this is still not good enough for you it seems, first you badger my brother to death, please bear in mind this is a man who is currently not in a good place because of what is happening to Jack, yet you think it is quite acceptable to add yet more stress and upset to his already large load, Then Lady P goes on to say how it made her upset that it got into a misery contest. Really I am quite shocked at how small minded the two of your are. I thought you were both adults seems you must both be under 18 to be carrying on in this manner, you both should be ashamed of yourselves.

Do not bother Cal or these good people any more, it stops right here!

GB and Fish Freak thank you so much for supporting Cal especially when you have your own difficulties I cannot thank you enough for that you are two very special people.

I'm currently in the middle of writing a reply to all of this, but as you know Cal, please do Jack this one favor.

Tell Cal he's hurting Jack by being mad. That can't be what he wants, and I don't think he realizes he's doing it.

Cal is not mad Cal is deeply upset

and I'm quite sure Jack knows the difference

oh and Cal wouldn't be upset if you had been adult about this from the outset

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/F635002?thread=3143664 Well, whatever he is feeling, everyone thinks it is a misunderstanding except him, and Jack is hurt that he (Cal) can't let it go.

Go read it properly NC Jack Says "I'm mad enough as it is that Cal has been upset like this"

He does not say he is hurt at all and he does not say he is mad at cal, just mad because Cal has been deeply upset by all this

Cal got mad at a comment he invited, which wasn't even intended to anger him, and now he's spending more energy trying to stay mad then he would if he just dropped it like everyone else has.

If you can read what Jack wrote and not think that Jack is being hurt by all of this, then there's nothing further I can say to you.

It's you who will not drop it, it's you who felt the need to invade peoples personal spaces to badger answers out of them

And again he is not mad, he is deeply upset

and I'm not surprised you are one arrogant peiece of work who believes himself to be right about everything so therefore everyone else is wrong, It's quite evidant you don't listen to what people say, this is the second time I've told you cal is not mad

And I'll go for a second time with this too, Jack is not mad at Cal, nor upset with him, He is mad because Cal HAS BEEN upset by comments made by YOURSELF and LADYP

Look, I've had enough when you tell other people what I'm feeling. The only reason I have been upset, if any, is because you have been upsetting Cal

So please do NOT bring me into this merely to back up things. Cal knows perfectly well what I've been feeling. He does talk to me, you know. Dont use me against him since for goodness sake I've been the one trying to snap him out of been completely mortified by your behaviour! Dax knows perfectly well what she is talking about

Now, to be honest Dan I think you should step back and notice that you are not helping in the slightest. If anything you are making things worse by trying to analyse the situation

Everyone just needs to go to their seperate corners and cool off

And I need a strong drink to calm my nerves

Okay, Jack. For you, I'll not post around Cal anymore. I have one post to make to FF and GB, and then I won't post near Cal.

I hope this all goes away, and for my part, I'm sorry for all of it.