h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

There's something not quite right about this article. The problem
when an article is written by somebody who has the opposite opinion
of the subject matter is that there's a lack of understanding.
The line which didnt need to be put in this article was "A fair number
of them are simply masochists with martyr complexes..."

I know alot of vegetarians and they mainly dont eat because they
feel physically sick about eating something that used to walk around with a brain
to think for itself. One day in an abatoir would put most people off meat
for life. The stench of excrement and blood is stomach turning. To watch
a cow or pig being killed is unbelievable - almost from a past barbaric
time.

There are loads of biological reasons that vegetarians do not eat meat too,
here are some of them:-

The human stomach is long (like a vegetarian animal) and does not cope
well with digesting meat which requires a short stomach which can expel
rotting meat quickly. Food usually takes up to 30 hours to pass through
the gut, meat doubly so. High levels of dangerouss uric acid
are produced when eating meat.A natural carnivore's liver removes
between 10 to 15 times more uric acid than a human's liver.

Finally I can point out a number of famous meat eaters:-
Peter Sutcliffe, Graham West, Herman Goering, Richard III,
Richard Nixon, ...etc what did that particular
point prove? - Nothing!

Abbatoir stench: I would also be disgusted to stand in a room filled with rotting cabbages and beet juice. Food-production leftovers are disgusting no matter what food it is.

Digestion: Human beings evolved as omnivores - evidence the teeth. Vegetables require a much longer digestive system to process than meat, therefore an animal evolving to eat both requires a longer digestive system.

Brains: Plants have been shown to produce emotion-like responses to a variety of stimuli, such as music and pain. A cabbage is just as much a living creature as a cow is, and no cow yet has impressed me with its thought processes. Life feeds on life. You must consume living things to continue living yourself. To my eye, a cow (which would not be alive anyway if it had not been born into the meat industry) has no more right to special protection than a cabbage. Or rather, they both deserve protection as living creatures, but I have to eat /something/, and therefore I choose to play no favorites.

The article doesn't mention people who don't eat meat because they don't like the taste. I don't eat meat for that reason and prefer pasta and veg. Also, I never really enjoyed that feeling after eating meat of carrying round a housebrick in my stomach.
The UK is pretty wise to vegetarianism these days and food is marked up as such in the stores and there's virtually no restaurant without a veggy option on the menu (the exception usually being seafood places.)
I had fun actually trying to avoid meat when on holiday in Malta last year. I asked for a cheese omelette in one bar. When I cut into it I noticed something pink. It was a huge slice of ham. When I told the waiter about the problem he said "Oh that's OK, no extra charge".
I've got no ethical problem with people eating meat. I think that's up to them. Just so long as I can smoke a cigarette after my meal.

I've often been amazed at the contradiction inherent in 'moral' vegetarians (rather than "don't like the taste" vegies) who will eat eggs. Maybe its in the marketing. Perhaps if eggs were renamed 'aborted chicken fetus' the dilemma would disappear.

;^)#

My favorite veggie quote is, "I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals. I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants."

Unfortunately, I have no idea who said it...

Human beings did not evolve as meat eaters. They ate meat and
the distestive system could not cope with it. Sorry to spoil you
illusion. Why do you think the average age of death in the 17th Century
was about 35? Mankind used to eat alot more meat than we do now.
Meat now can be linked with the two biggest killers in the world
heart disease and cancer.

The front teeth of a human being are pointy to enable you to bite into
something. They are not carniverous teeth.

That old chestnut of vegetables with brains and feelings is laughable.
Even so, everybody has to draw the line somewhere.

The other thing missing from this article is that vegetarians
eat a wider variety of meals. Never the same each day
and the choice is enormous compared to your average person's
meat and two veg...

"Why do you think the average age of death in the 17th Century
was about 35? Mankind used to eat alot more meat than we do now.
Meat now can be linked with the two biggest killers in the world
heart disease and cancer."

So we live longer because we eat more vegetables & less meat compared to the 17th century. And the two biggest killers in the world today are heart disease & cancer. But they weren't the biggest killers in the 17th century now were they? I doubt whether there was a single recorded death during the 17th century where the cause of death was heart disease or cancer(possibly due to the fact that they didnt know what it was back then).

Seems to me your argument supports the notion that vegetables can be linked to the increase in heart disease & cancer based on your presented evidence.

I think you might have skipped one or two other things that might have had an effect of life expectancy - medicine & disease control spring to mind as things that may have had an effect.
In fact, if you check, I think you'll find that very high infant mortality contributed significantly to the lower average age at death. So, using your method, it could be argued that breast feeding & an absence of meat in a babies diet can be linked to high infant mortality.


;^)#

Also, suggesting that vegetarians eat a wider variety of meals is a bit presumptuous. Wouldn't an omnivore have wider selection to choose from? You sound as if non-veggies eat steak and potatoes at every meal...

My favourite quote, and like you I can't remember who it was, was a restrauntuer when asked why he didn't offer a vegetarian option on the menu replied
"I will when I can go to a vegetarian restaraunt & successfully order the token meat eaters dish".

;^)#

Point taken about lack of medicine and medical treatment
and the infant mortality rate.
Mankind used to eat on average 5lbs of meat a day
in those days and they didnt keep such stringent records of cause
of death so I dont think we can be so certain either way.

The problem with discussing this subject is that
its highly contentious and I know that people do not
want to hear the truth about what is on their plate
or how animals are slaughtered or that sausages
quite often contain genitals, eye balls etc. Not
nice I know but its the truth...I know people who worked
in butchers.

Vegetarians live on average 20% longer than meat eaters.

If there's a problem with the way animals are killed that's a problem with the process rather than the product.

Eyes, genitals & other bits of offal are considered delicacies in many parts of the world. I don't mind whats in the sausage as long as I like the taste & it doesn't make me ill (though I must admit I'm not partial to chicken feet that Chinese friends insist are delicious - they're just to damned ugly for me - the feet not the friends)& in fact my favourite sausage is bratwurst & I would be seriously unhappy if it didn't contain a serious amount of offal.

In fact I think its laudable that if an animal is killed for human use that as much as possible is used. Or do you think it would be preferable to kill several hundred kilos of cow & only use that really tasty little 1 kilo titbit & throw the rest away?

I agree with your original point that the original article was written from a very negative point of view & is unrepresentative, perhaps, of vegetarians/ism. However, you won't win any converts being evangelical with emotive arguments and generalities that don't bear any sort of close examination (btw I have the same trouble with religious evangelists too, particularly the ones who feel the need to sell their particular brand door to door - but that's a whole different forum). The joke above about not being able to get a meat option in a vegetarian restaraunt has a serious message. Vegetarians (quite correctly) believe that they should be able to execise their choice in selecting food & that choice should be tolerated. However, a vegetarian restaraunt will not offer that same choice (or the tolerance) to a visiting carnivore. Try asking for the meat option in a vegetarian restaraunt some time, but don't be surprised if you experience the same reaction as you would if you had defecated on the table.

In Asia those with a diet with a relatively high meat content live much longer than those with a predominantly vegetarian diet. That may have something to do with the fact that only the wealthy can afford meat & other luxuries like medical care, proper nutritian, clean water & sanitation and a proper house. How was your statistic arrived at? (I just made mine up but I'm confident I could find something to support it) ;^)#

The Things That Are In Sauasages/Hot Dogs is a standard and long running joke. (Witness The Simpsons episode where Lisa turns to vegetariansim.) Most people (I believe) are aware that they contain animal parts that you probably wouldn't eat by itself (not even for a fairly large wager)...

Anyone think there are vegetarians in Norway? When I visited a few years ago (Bergen, specifically), I noticed that they sold about any meat you could think of... reindeer (tasty), elk, whale (One T-shirt read "We Kill Whales Just for Fun"), and some of the ugliest fish you could imagine...

Ok enough said on the subject I dont want to come
across like a religious nutter (from far it!!!). I do actually believe
in live and let live but I cant stand ignorance so arguing
is abit of a contradiction. Go ahead eat meat by all
means (I lunch with people who eat meat every day and never say
a word about it) but when people knock vegetarianism without
thinking about what they're eating instead it rattles my cage... sorry
about that...regards and respect to you all!

Isn't it funny how a veggie in meat eating company won't criticise their companions choice of food, but has to constantly put up with their own diet being ridiculed? And how many veggies out there are sick of being asked what they eat for Christmas dinner??!

One year I was taken out by my parents for a *surprise* Christmas Dinner at some posh country club. The dinner was held in the club carvery.
The gravy was meat stock gravy. The roast potatoes were cooked in lard. The other potatoes were coated in little bits of bacon.
My own nearest and dearest somehow believed that I was happy tucking in to a plate of cauliflower and green beans for a Xmas dinner

Still, on the bright side it left plenty of room for triple helpings of hot chocolate fudge cake with double cream

I think one day a year is OK to put up with other people's ignorance. Any more than that and it's time to set them straight.
I ate out once with some work colleagues who found my choice of salad rather than steak worth laughing at (as the company was paying) so I created pet names for all the dead animals they were eating. They didn't do it again.

eggs are not aborted chicken fetuses. they are ovum. women ovulate once a month. hens ovulate more frequently. if the eggs aren't fertilized there is never going to be a chick. egg + sperm = baby.

aww OK - wonder where I can go for some 'animated discussion' now ;^)#

no hard feelings

;^)#

Can you explain why humans have such as small appendix where as full-time herbivores have a very long one?

I have never yet seen a cow or sheep with canines as humans do. Don't get me wrong I think that people do eat too much meat, I eat meat every second day on average.

I think one thing that vegetarianism has against it is that a lot of vegeterians don't substitute meat with a good alternative. How many really thin, pasty faced and generally sick-looking people do you know, that proudly announce themselves as vegetarians? I know quite a few.

Probably less than all the fat, blobby, high-blood pressure types propping up the pie shop.
If you eat anything, you have to balance it out with the right amount of essential vitamins, either in the food you eat or in tablet form.
And drink enough water...oh my god I sound like my mother...aaarrgh!!!