h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

D'Oh! I will try that again....

Right pensions...

Due to the current pensions robbery my employer is currently trying to get away with I know a fair bit about them now, which probably aint true of too many people my age!!!

Whilst the Labour tax ain't exactly helped the real problem for lots of occy schemes was caused in the 80s when the Thatcher government ruled that pension surpluses over 5% would be taxed heavily and the regulators employers in surplus to take contribution holidays.

Totally insane really, investments go up as well as down and the whole point of the pension should be to make hey whilst the sun shined, so that when the bad times come you are in a position to tough it out.

Many employers (including my own) took advantage of this for ages. And now when times are not so great, following the "Tiger Economies" stock crashes in the early naughties, pension schemes just don't have the necessary surplusses to cope.

This is a multi faceted problem, partly caused by tory legislation, partly by labour, but mainly by short termist planning by employers and a stupid "the good times will always last".

Also that fact that in the last 25 years life expectancy has risen by a fair amount (a good thing surely) but this has caused problems for all schemes as they just didn't bank on paying out for as long as they have to on average.

Ahhh.... good old pensions. This could probably have a thread all on its own!!!

FB (Now a pensions )

"Because this is the UK and British citizens elect MPs to represent *them*, not people thousands of miles away with their own governments."

But Labour have always been an internationalist party so I expect them to be generous in foreign aid. If people are extremely hostile to internationalism then I'd imagine they would be more likely to vote conservative or (if they're a bit unhinged about it all) BNP or UKIP or some other fringe party. If it was a conservative government doing this then you'd have more solid ground for shouting foul since I imagine it's not something conservative voters regard as part-and-parcel of Tory policy but you're on rather less steady ground with Labour.

"Do the results herald defeat for Labour at the next General Election?"

I'm not popping down to Ladbrokes to put money on a Labour win in 2009 (or likely 2010 at this rate) anyway, put it that way. Labour performed badly in 2004 at a local level and still won the General Election in 2005 but this year they've not only performed worse than in 2004 but have been losing what, theoretically, should be safe Labour areas to the conservatives of all people. This both demonstrates the unpopularity of Labour among the electorate at the moment and the apparent success of Cameron's rebranding of the conservatives.

"Are we about to witness another 97 moment, when a deeply unpopular govt was thrown out? If so, what does this say about the cyclical nature of British politics?"

Possibly. It's not over 'til the fat lady sings, though. Unpopular governments expected to fall can sometimes turn things around (eg Major in 1992) but I can't see that happening unless Brown is replaced as Labour leader and the party regains a sense of direction and purpose. I'm not even sure what they really stand for any more; Brown's not quite the same, politically, as Blair but after nearly a year in power I can't quite tell you what Brown's priorities are. He's also useless with the media; in many ways his media profile reminds me of Iain Duncan Smith, the worst leader of a British political party in decades.

Interesting reading the arguements between Zagreb McKay and SWL, but are you not simply chewing on an old bone ?

Surely the fact that NL has fallen to around 24% of the vote shows that the electorate have not only spoken their dissatisfaction, they have SHOUTED it.

If you are labour or left wing you should be thinking hard about what you want to do to repair the damage. If you're off to the right I suggest that you concentrate on policies to capitalise on these results.

Isn't it a bit late for swapping opinions and stats.?

There may be many any reasons why voters have chosen where to put their cross, but the plain fact is that they have done so....in droves, so we should be pointing to the future, not the past.

Novo

This post has been removed.

"Moving on"? Ooh, Blair's favourite phrase whenever he screwed up or was caught out. A phrase that allowed him to slide and wriggle out of any situation. I'm sure the Labour Party would love to "move on" and try to pretend that nothing untoward has happened.

It depends whether Labour decide to go for a policy or personality-led approach. I think we can discount the latter as the few personalities within Labour are deeply repellent. That leaves policies. What new ideas can they come up with after 10 years? Bear in mind the intellectual vacuum within the party that led to them rushing to adopt Tory policies at the last General Election. Adding to this is the fact that there is no money around. Darling can't buy votes as Broon did in the past. Money from the good times of economic growth has been allowed to hemorrhage out of the country and been squandered on foreign ward.

Bankrupt of ideas & money - what is the way forward for Labour?

What happened to that post ? And what was it ?

We're all pretty thick skinned.

Pedro - "Remember, all political careers end in failure."

Bill Clinton?

His presidency didn't exactly end in triumph, did it? His wife's campaign is kinda tarnishing him as well.

Anyway, that quote refers to the UK (and you know it ya bass), where there isn't a limit on the time in office.

Well, do you not think he would have got a 3rd term? Clinton v Bush, hmmm

There is a point there though, should we limit the time a party can spend in office? After 10 years, a talented Tory govt turned into a bunch of corrupt charlatans hopelessly out of touch and arrogant. The Labour Party are arguably in exactly the same position now.

"What happened to that post ? And what was it ?

We're all pretty thick skinned."

I put a bad word in it that I'd censored using '*'s but forgot that that isn't good enough for the current censorship rules here.

*sigh*

I might re-post with the "offensive" stuff removed.

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That's the job of the electorate. If they don't do their job, what d'you recommend?


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The one during the 1950s? I didn't realise you were that old.

Sorry for the delay replying. Just had a 120 mile round trip to my local A&E. The Doctor said he doesn't see many split sides these days.

Oh, I thought it just took you that long to get it..

"This is a multi faceted problem, partly caused by tory legislation, partly by labour, but mainly by short termist planning by employers and a stupid "the good times will always last"."

The actual killing blow was when Broon decided that pensions deficits must show on company balance sheets - WHOOM - final salary pensions had to be closed, because they impacted on the profit margin and company value.

Screw the workers - "The first duty of a company is to its share-holders."

Thus all private firms of any size are seeking to close their final salary schemes.