h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

May I ask why I should remove it from Peer Review?

If you're telling me that there's no way this entry will be picked - or rather, no way it will be edited, even though it HAS been picked - then please, tell me that, and I shall remove it immediately, no further questions asked. No sense flogging a dead horse.

Bear in mind - this entry meets the Writing Guidelines, breaks no House Rules, has received a positive reponse in Peer Review, and has, apparently, been picked. Why would I want to remove it?

Bear in mind also that you are asking me to remove it, and (I assume) telling me it *won't* be edited, without giving me ANY reason, after I've been asking for a MONTH. Be assured, this problem will not just lie down and go away...

How long is it reasonable to expect to have to wait for a reply from these "other departments", anyway?



Summary: tell me that you're not going to allow this in the Edited Guide, and I'll take it out of Peer Review IMMEDIATELY. No need for reasons or justification, simply confirm that although this entry meets all guidelines, it isn't going to get into the EG.

Thanks

FB

Oh, and one other question which you have been assiduously ducking:

HOW MANY COMPLAINTS?

Has this, or the original entry of which it is a lesser, bowdlerised verions, been yikesed, even once?

PLEASE respond.

Thanks

FB

Hello FB,

We don't really want this Entry to be picked until we know that (and if so, exactly why) the original Entry can't be reinstated.

I can't really speak for other departments and how long it might take them to respond to questions on a particular issue.

Thanks,

Natalie

Natalie:

I didn't ask how long it was going to take. I understand that you can't answer that question. I asked "How long is it reasonable to expect to have to wait", which attempts to solicit your opinion. If you don't have one, that's fine.

I'll read your other reply as a "No", and remove this from Peer Review... for now.

FB

Hello again FB,

To answer your question regarding complaints about an Entry, we cannot discuss details like this - it involves moderation information and as such is confidential.

Thanks,

Natalie

FB

Is there any method by which you can read the origional deleted entry, I would be interested to see what it was like?

Ralph

All:

This entry has now been removed from Peer Review. To everyone who has contributed to this thread, I apologise for the complete waste of all your time and positive comments over the last month. The only mitigation I can offer is that I'm not a bloody mind-reader.

Ralph/Ferretbadger:

You might try typing "A gentleman's guide to home-made" into Google, and checking out their cache of the top hit...

You might.

I couldn't condone such a course of action.

Of course.

And Lo! It has also disappeared from the list of pending Scout recommendations without going forward to the Forthcoming list.

I shall keep my eye on the other conversation thread F19585?thread=288228&latest=1 for developments (triumph of hope over experience)

Pimms

Surely Natalie you must have a personal opinion about what constitutes a reasonable period of time? I mean you must be an intelligent human being in order to work for the beeb.

The problem here is we the researches, who lets face are the people who h2g2 is all about, are being treated like children.

It seems to me to be a scandel that FB has to remove his (in my opinion fine article) becuase of some stupid unaccountable decision taken by some bigwig who is unwilling to justify there earlier decision.

What happened to integrity from the BBC, what happened to freedom of speech/expression. I for one am outraged!

FB (Not frumious)

It seems equally unfair to blame the integrity of the BBC by one decision. I don't like the decision either, but remember that complaining simply won't do much good. Oh, and regarding free speech, the UK doesn't quite have it from what I've picked up in various forums (Correct me if I'm wrong)

>>The problem here is we the researches, who lets face are the people who h2g2 is all about, are being treated like children.

Well it is auntie beeb's website. And we are getting it free without advertising (Well maybe not quite free, what with the UK's license fee). Personally, I'll bend to any arbitrary whim the BBC decides, because I know that getting upset won't help anything

My .

"I know that getting upset won't help anything", and "complaining simply won't do much good"

That's where we differ, Jodan. I know that complaining CAN work.

In July 2001, it was possible to be summarily banned from the site, without process or right of reply, for life. I complained, and offered a solution. It was accepted. Lifetime bans, on the rare occasions they happen, now happen as calm, considered decisions, taken over a week, and with time for the banned person to appeal, rather than instantaneously and possibly on a whim. Complaining worked.

About eighteen months ago, the page you saw when you clicked "Peer Review" told you all about how to submit an entry, but offered no guidance to the many, many people who seemed to misunderstand how to COMMENT on entries. I complained, and proposed some additional wording. It was accepted, and is there still. Complaining worked.

When h2g2 was bought out by the BBC, it became, for the first time, moderated - every post examined within the hour by an external team of moderators. This was unpopular, and people complained. After over a year, some hard behind the scenes work by the Italics, and a lot of complaining from the users, in an unprecedented move, the Beeb allowed h2g2's moderation to be purely reactive - i.e. nothing's seen by moderators unless someone clicks the "yikes" button. Complaining worked.

Just three examples. You can change things if you want to, but you have to want to, and sometimes you have to be very, very persistent and patient.

FB

OK fair one!

Perhaps the whole BBC is not suddenly evil, and I take your point about free at the point of use. I personally am a big fan of the BEEB, but that just makes this instance so much more galling.

Free speech, hmmm as I understand it under the European convention on human rights (part of the social chapter of the Maastricht Treaty) we do have a right to the freedom of speech. As this is not part of UK domestic law, I think we do have some rights to it. Not 100% about that though.

Okay, Frumious you have a point. But the italics have made it perfectly clear that complaining probably won't help this scenario

This is different from those instances. The people you're complaining to can't change it. And if it is allowed, then it probably won't be because of any complaining.

Don't get me wrong, I wish this entry to get into the EG as well, but I honestly don't think that complaining will do anything in *this* situation

<blacksheep.

Yeah, you do have a sort of free speech as I understand it, but not part of the domestic law.

I thought it had to do with the universal declaration of human rights, but I suppose it could be the European one

"the italics have made it perfectly clear that complaining probably won't help this scenario"

What the italics say and the truth can be vastly different things. To be obvious, "well they would say that wouldn't they" springs to mind.

Also the complaints weren't just to the italics. Other addresses were mentioned in other threads and of course the h2g2 staff can always pass stuff on, eg by including in an email a link to the thread where the community are complaining. That doesn't necessarily mean they should, but they could. As both I and FB pointed out, this situation of variant/whimsical Editorial Policy makes a mockery of the positions of the h2g2 editors.

I also disagree with you about this entry getting into the EG, Jodan. I'd prefer it if the previous one were restored - possibly with any necessary modifications. Not that it affects me, but one of the consequences of putting this through as a separate EG entry is that someone else's entry doesn't get onto the front page instead or is slightly delayed at any rate. That could be an advantage to the staff if there is a shortage of entries. It would be bad for other researchers if there is a backlog. However, it would also give FB's article yet more advertising - which currently seems to be regarded as bad by Editorial Policy.

A rampant idealist eh?

Complaining here. Complaining here.

I think a lot of people would like to see the original restored, myself included. It just doesn't look like it's going to happen

I might not get restored, but we have to get an explanation as to why not, ok some things we won't be able to change; doesn't mean we can't get an explanation as to why not.

Come on the more noise we make, the harder it will be for EP not to listen.

They don't discuss individual moderation cases onsite

Wrong window

The google cached version? It's here:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=cache:fEKc6Z4_gJoJ:www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A1000684+%22gentleman%27s+guide+to+home-made%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8