h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

"The word is stout. We are not flabbies, gut buckets..." Remember that?

No, I don't remember that phrase. However, I did once read that 'stout' ladies used to be referred to as 'Junoesque', particularly if the ladies were middle-aged. I don't know what Juno had to do with it. Most representations of Greek or Roman goddesses that I have seen show them as perfectly proportioned.

I don't believe I've heard that term before.
Hmm, Junoesque.I'll have to remember that one.
Oh, and BTW, JusZisGuy, I'll remember the term "Stout" for next time. lol.

It was a sketch on Not The Nine O-Clock News, a spoof interview with two "stout activists" who were trying to overcome stoutist attitudes in the media and so on. Includes Rowan Atkinson as Ron from FLAB (Fat Louts Against Bikinis), and the rallying cry "we demand the banning of the word 'ample'" - well I thought is was funny

Tolerances I can accept (pulls out B Eng from desk drawer) see? But M&S clearly use a different kind of inch, in the same way that Microsoft use a different kind of second to everyone else. M&S is the only place I have significant trouble with sizing. Most other places seem reasonably consistent.

Incidentally, I am (as I amy have mentioned) 6'1" tall and my wife is 5'4" - average for a woman. We have bought several cars over the years, and so far only one manufacturer has always been drivable for both of us. Ford and Vauxhall are disastrous. Either I am sitting on the back seat with my knees still round my ears, or Felicity has her head almost touching the windscreen.

I'm afraid that most manufactured items conform to a 20-year-old idea of what the manufacturers would like average to be, rather than anything real. Who do you know who is a size 10? Nobody. Most women these days who are not actually anorexic are a 14 or above, mainly because women are getting taller. I know several women over 6' tall, and all have immense difficulty finding clothes.

I also have trouble with the driving position in cars. Not because of my height (I'm 5' 5" - average for a woman), but because of my leg length. My driving instructor told me about getting the 'right' driving position:

1) Put your hands in the 12 o'clock position on the steering wheel. You should be close enough to the wheel to have your arms slightly bent.
2) Depress the clutch with your left foot. You should be far enough back to depress it fully without having to stretch.
3) Put the car into first gear. You should be able to do this without your shoulder leaving the back of the seat.

I did all this on one driving lesson, with him looking on. The clutch pedal was depressed the whole time and, when I finally drove off, I found that I couldn't get my foot off the pedal because I was too close to the steering wheel. I have this sort of problem with most, if not all, non-Oriental makes that don't have height adjustable seats, and even some that do. Of the 3 cars I have owned, 2 have been Japanese. The third, my beloved Morris Minor, is a classic and I can forgive her anything. Actually, she does have a pretty good driving position.

As for clothing sizes, it is widely acknowledged that the last time women's sizes were calculated was in the early 50's, i.e. post-war when women were a lot thinner. Women now are taller, larger and have a lower bust line. Work is being done to re-calculate sizes, but Heaven only knows when it will be completed. As for average size, I once read that more than 50% of the female population is size 14 or above. Dawn French owns (or part-owns) a shop in London called 1640 because 40% of the female population is size 16 or over.

Junoesque may not have made it to the States. It does sound fairly middle-class English, and was probably used in women's clothes shops where they didn't want to offend rich clients by calling them fat or over-weight.

That man is hillarious. I never get tired of watching Rowan Atkinson.
Though I never got a chance to see Mr. Bean, I did see his act on Comedy Central here in the states. He's a riot. I didn't stop laughing for about an hour!
I wonder if he'll do any new acts any time soon.....

We've even found some Japanese cars Felicity couldn't drive - the Honda Integra for one. I found a Honda Aerodeck 2.2 EX in beautiful condition for a reasonable price, and drove 25 miles with the family to buy it, only to find that with the seat at the back of its travel Michael (then aged 4) had his feet wedged against the back of the driving seat, and I was still too close to the pedals. So we generally buy Volvos because we both fit in them easily.

There is a fast-growing UK company called Bravissimo that provides for only D-cup and over. They also regularly send readers' petitions to manufacturers to hassle them to make more of these items. The more support they can drum up, the more successful they will be in getting more fabulous stuff for their catalogue. If anyone would like more details, please email me at [email protected]

I have found that different countries have different cut-styles. So if you can't find a style that suits you, change country. This can get expensive for a simple shopping trip. (No I don't practice this, but richer acquaintances do).

I also have problems with being big and short. If big and tall is challenging, try it from this perspective. UK Size 14 - not a problem? fairly standard? sure if you are normal height! But "petite" sections tend to be for size 10s (12 at a pinch) and not cut to hide bulges. And if a shop does do a petite range that fit me - the clothes themselves are just nowhere near my taste.

Standard size 14 clothes? I shorten trousers, sleeves, blouses, jumpers... No, I tell a lie, I did find a pair of trousers that were the right length last year. They were *supposed* to be 3/4 length - ie reach mid-calf.

You have my heart-felt sympathy. At the moment I am above size 14 (but trying womanfully to get back there) and am short-waisted (i.e. the length from nape of neck to waist is shorter than average). This makes buying jackets a real pain, and buying suits all but impossible. A friend suggested that I should try shops that have a 'petite' section for my jackets, as the jackets would be cut for a shorter woman. However, as you say, try finding a petite 14+.

Another thing that bugs me is that a lot of manufacturers seem to think that as you get bigger (i.e. size increases) your arms get longer. I have bought shirts/blouses for size 16 and over and found the sleeves end somewhere near my fingertips! Strangely they don't apply the same reasoning to legs, so I often end up buying men's trousers. This is OK for casual wear, but not if I want something a bit smarter or more formal that I can wear with high heels. When did you last see a nice pair of men's trousers in velvet or silk (or even flannel-look for wearing to work on cold days)?

I'm 14 and I live in the U.S. and don't have a job yet so no uniform I do agree with you though I hate dresses no pockets all the time there's wind you end up with your undies showing you can't sit comfortably and then there are panty hose these are evil I don't know who invented them or why but they where definitly a satanist they bunch they run they smush you they have no real purpose except to make people wonder why your legs are tan and the rest of you pale I have never seen a pare in my color skin so I look really odd in them like major tan lines or something then the shoes I never got high heels they mess up your feet you can't run in them they are the main reason Lois Lane needs superman if she got some Nikes and a pair of jeans and a T-shirt she could ditch him I refuse to get started on bras as they have underwires which pinch and leave marks and are just a menace to society plus nothing ever fits right jeans are to big in the back to littles in front or end up with holes in them straight off.

When you get a job you may find that you are 'expected' to wear high heels, unless you get a job where you can dress casually all the time. For some reason people think high-heeled shoes look smarter than flatties. A lot of the time they are right - you just can't get a pair of stylish flat shoes in the UK. Maybe the US is different. I can't get away with trousers and trainers in my job (software engineer). Although I almost never meet customers, I am still expected to look smart. I always have a pair of high-heeled shoes to change into at work as I can't drive or walk fast in high-heels.

I don't know who invented tights (panty-hose), but I couldn't cope with stockings and I find that my feet stick to my shoes if I'm not wearing something in between, so I have to put up with them. And, as I'm a large woman, I won't start on the subject of bras again. They are essential when you're as big as I am, but finding one that fits well is a real pain.

I know this will sound "pull up the ladder,Jack" but I think you should seriously consider a holiday in Hong Kong - or better just over the border in Shenzen. I recently bought five linen dresses, six jackets, three silk blouses and two skirts for HK$1000(about 85 quid) . Tailored by a Shanghai tailor. So they fit perfectly. In two cases the buttons, bought in the same place cost more than the material and the tailoring together.
I've also had smart winter suits,(with skirts and pants) with as many pockets as I need and petticoats and pants made at the same place. My Chinese isn't good enough to find someone who makes bras
I'm a 38D according to M& S and I wear their crossover stretchy bras (of which the serial number seems to be 3549 179 for packs of 2)NO underwires and they seem to support OK. I also have a couple of 40C for fatter days.
So, think about it - the cheapest return fare seems to be about 300 pounds at the moment (and of course they do men's tailoring too)You could combine it with your next holiday
Oh, and I also know a shoemaker

I have been to interviews etc in flatties - don't like high heels. Okay, I wear either flat lace ups (school shoes) or flat court shoes. Not 10% as smart as high heels, but polished and smart practical... I've not been turned down yet...

Yes, I agree with you on bras.

I'm short waisted too and those bigger bras with the wide side panels - don't fit properly as the side panels are too wide.

AAAAARRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!!

And when will bra manufacturers who do make larger sizes realise that we need 3 hooks in the back because 2 just aren't enough. I finally found my wedding underwear after hours of searching the net - it was in a local larger sizes clothing store and it fits perfectly!

I do have a 3 hook bra - from M&S - but the side straps are rather wide.

Where the heck do you find nice looking flat court shoes? I'd like at least one pair, but all the ones I can find are either expensive or look frumpy. I don't like wearing flat lace-ups for work, although I have been known to wear flat slip-ons with an appropriate (i.e., more casual than usual) skirt.

And yes, Ginger, 3 hooks at the back are essential for a large-breasted woman. I've never had problems with the size of the side panels, though.

You might find this site useful. You may already have found it. Have a look: [email protected]