h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

By 'this' I mean the current situation on hootoo and in particular the suspension of Effers. More generally, the discussion on a number of threads that I might have some interest in has been channelled into a stifling narrowness and, sadly, it seems that the channellers are completely unaware of what is happening. If it were not for the fact that I have an ability to say 'Feck this' more silently than Effers has, I expect I would have been suspended or banned by now. Other threads I might be interested in just disappear for lack of posts -- the conversations have fallen silent.

Why do I remain? Let me count the ways:

1. The Edited Guide -- I think I might contribute more to it someday.

2. The Chief Gordon thread, although it's pretty much moribund now with the general absence of a large number of the old regulars.

3. -- wait. There doesn't seem to be anything else.

So, the Edited Guide and a single thread. I guess the 'community' aspect of it is pretty much done for me.

and, in case anyone actually comes by here and has any interest in the local manifestation of this mighty grass-roots (i.e. run by career, paid activists) social movement that's sweeping the Western World . . .

David Staples is a very passionate, sensitive and kind man who has devoted large chunks of his journalistic career to social issues. He seems to have nailed Occupy Edmonton and its failure: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/canada/Staples+Occupy+Edmonton+wrong/5752144/story.html

Staples has a follow up today: http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2011/11/23/occupy-edmonton-update-the-demands-stated-in-your-letter-are-not-matters-within-melcors-control-young-tells-protest-group/



It kind of reminds me of the way the U.S. acted in 1812: the conquest of Canada would be a matter of a few days marching; the didn't anticipate that 99% of Canadians didn't want to be Americans and were quite happy to fight. Occupy here seems to have set up shop (under the supervision of Greenpeace) expecting the masses to rise up and join them. But the 99% said, 'meh'.

Sad but true. It seems that the 99% would rather change the world by working at it.

Clearly, I missed the memo: why did Effers get banned?

She was making what struck me as reasonable, sometimes light hearted, sometimes seriously reasoned contributions to a conversation or two and it was determined to be 'flooding'. Personally, I think she's been being bullied for quite some time now.

Do you know whether this is a tempory suspension, or a permanent ban? I, for one, would be disappointed to see her go, as she often has something interesting or challenging to say.

I agree that some people have been pretty cruel, but on the other hand, she doesn't seem to have learned from previous suspensions, and tends to be unnecessarily harsh to other Researchers, whether or not in response to provocation, and she does tend to slag off h2g2 regularly - doesn't she realize how offensive she can be even (or especially) to those offering understanding and support?

Just twenty four hours then a day of only journals.

She has had repeated deafh wishes directed against her here, you know. And nothing came of that.

The emails she gets from TPTB are insultingly paternalistic, IMO.

The atmosphere on Ask has become unbearably bullying, not just toward Effers.

I can't comment much as I'm a little too close to this, but I would ask that if anyone sees bullying behaviour please use the yikes button to alert the moderators.

On a more personal note I also find it more difficult to find conversations on h2g2 these days. I find the relentless religion threads too difficult, and any thread that starts off in fun keeps on becoming serious which I'm not personally interested in any more. Not to say that they shouldn't happen just that they're not my cup of tea. It's also hard to find anything happening outside of Ask itself, which is a shame as we used to have so much variety here.

I do think that the Edited Guide is starting to regain momentum though, and I really hope that that forward momentum will start to enliven the place. I miss the days when we had groups of people spontaneously starting societies and threads and places to go.

Speaking of, I was meaning to join in the bikini competition over at the Waterworks as a bit of light relief. Thankfully I don't actually have to do it in real life but a can flutter in, I hope.

I thought the journals-only idea was a very good one. It's a pity Effers doesn't seem to have learned from it.

I know of one 'death threat', which shouldn't have been taken any more seriously than the one aimed at someone (whose name I've forgotten) during the Della Wars.

Anyway, I am pleased it's not a long ban.

Speaking of Peer Review, I find it a little sad that Effers finally has her piece back into PR just as she's been kicked out for a couple of days.

As for yikesing, it's been done a number of times to some bullying posts and they've been given a pass quite quickly. I very nearly yikesed a post a few days ago in which a well known someone was exceptionally insulting and provocative to Effers in response to a post she made which was reasonable, grounded in fact, unprovocative and completely on-topic. I probably should have. But I expect it would have come right back because it was just lighthearted or something.

Yes, Effers has her challenges, yes she can fly off the handle, but there's a hell of a lot of winding her up going on. It's unconscionable and I don't believe for a minute that the winding up isn't known. And it's being tolerated. And, yes, she's been offering up criticism of hootoo, but, in my opinion, her criticisms have been completely legitimate and I share many of her concerns about what's going on with the place (although I care somewhat less than she does and a great deal less than I used to).

'I know of one 'death threat''

death *wish*. Her death was wished for. Hardly something an adult says to someone with known mental health issues. That's bullying of the most obscene sort.

'Effers doesn't seem to have learned from it.'

Actually, I think she's learned a lot from it.

Why is she the only one who's seen to need to be 'taught a lesson'?

Seriously, this is school yard shit, and Effers is usually more of a grown up than the rest, from what I've seen. If I were here I'd have left long ago. As it is, I'm pretty much fed up with things here and have been spending more and more time elsewhere (I'm enjoying a very pleasant conversation on Yelp Edmonton about 'books I've enjoyed'. No bullying.)

And, I feel quite sure that if I started yikesing the `posts that I think should be yikesed and calling everyone on the bullying each time I see it, I'd soon be suspended as well.

anhaga, she's vulnerable and not one of the cool kids. A perfect bully target.

What's Wrong With Hootoo? All sorts of things but we don't talk about it in this tragically cool, veiled British site.

That wouldn't be cricket.

I'm popping in because I yikesed Effer's post on the Occupy h2g2 thread that was hidden. Obviously I didn't have a hand in the hiding but the reason why I yikesed it was because it made a reference to occupying another another researcher and used a phrase which in frankly could easily be read as a death wish for that researcher.

Now, I daresay she didn't mean it to read so starkly, but the post came out of the blue, there was no chain of posts of other researchers referring to occupying each other, let alone in such terms, and was made towards a researcher who Effers has a troubled relationship with lately. I yikesed the post, in short, to spare the other researcher the pain which a post using immoderate language constituting a death wish (which you refer to yourself) caused Effers when it happened to her. When, as I am sure you will remember, moderation decisions and sanctions were still under the control of the BBC.

Just thought I'd make that clear.

Solnushka

But one yikes doesn't lead to suspension.

And, I know, Effers has been yikesed far more than once. I have no objection to posts being yikesed in general. What I'm concerned about, however, is what I see to be fairly consistent and widespread bullying which is pretty much ignored. It's making a number of conversations very uncomfortable (for me, anyway) and I get the feeling that the bullying is sometimes spilling over from the usual sorts of targets (the vulnerable) to people who simply disagree. To be honest, I am finding myself hesitating to respond to some people -- I consider just moving on rather than entering into a discussion. I don't think such stifling of discussion is good for hootoo, but it *is* happening.

"I very nearly yikesed a post a few days ago"

I know exactly the one you mean, and I felt the same as you. I think, though, that keeping a few examples unyikesed (yikesing isn't likely to have that type of post removed permanently, anyway), is a good idea and I believe Effers wants it that way - although she does tend to change her mind about things. I think she's been very brave.

That post - or series of posts, with other prominent Researchers jumping in to add their dose of comtempt - astonished me, bearing in mind that the person who wrote it has his own 'difficulties'.

"Why is she the only one who's seen to need to be 'taught a lesson'?"

Well, if she doesn't want these penalties to continue, she should make a little more effort to do what you do - "I have an ability to say 'Feck this' more silently than Effers" - or risk a lengthy ban.

"I share many of her concerns about what's going on with the place"

But WE are the place, and it's up to us to get along - particularly at this time. One doesn't need to suffer from mental health problems to feel hurt and offended.

Please don't leave.

*shrugs* As I'm sure you can guess, I don't take such a bleak view of things as you. I even think, for example, in the other exhange you refer to, the one where you considered yikesing someone for responding harshly to Effers, win my memory went something like - Effers: your idea is foolish and naive. Other: You are talking rubbish. So not much to choose between them.

And also in my memory, when some researchers were expressing their irritation with Effers recently a moderator stepped in and asked people to stop (which they did), so I'd also arguing that if any bullying is being brought to their attention, the volunteers are doing their best to stop it.

I'm afraid that other than Effers obvious irritation with not being able to do to another researcher what she objected to when it was done to her, which was all over Ask yesterday, I haven't seen much else. I'd have posted this explanation to her then of my actions, except that it seemed to have died down by the time I got on site, so I'm afraid I didn;t want to enflame her further.

But given that the community volunteers have acted to protect her (see above), then I suggest you contact them if you have concerns that other people are bullying her in the future.

yes, I've suggested to her that she avoid certain places and people, although it goes a little against my real world feelings -- I'm thinking of the message of Slut Walk here -- it shouldn't be up to the victim to avoid the victimizers.

But then, there are one or two who actually do follow her around at times and post superficially innocuous comments which are designed to wind her up or send her off.

That's probably a bigger problem, really, than the ordinary school yard bullying.

The point being that none of the volunteers, even the CEs of moderators obsessively lurk the threads. It is up to the community as a whole, including, say, you, anhaga to alert them to any issues if you feel that expressing them in the thread itself isn't working/ going to work.

Because it shouldn't be a them and us thing. Should it? You could help the moderators and CEs to do their job better rather than (forgive me) complain about it after the fact or in places they may not see.

Sorry, smlpost.

Yikes the comments then. I appreciate you may not have read the huge backlog on some of the how shall we moderate threads that have been going on since the bid started, but one of the ideas of the moderation now is to not take things in isolaiton from the context, which was what the beeb mods were doing. So you are bringing the situation to the attention of the mods that way.

That was the spirit in which I yikesed that post, for example.

Although (I'm stopping now) it was pretty extreme on its own too. Sorry.