h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

OK, everybody, Richard Creasey has kicked things off by writing up his research notes from a conversation he had with Dr. Ian Player, world-renowned elephant guru. All comments welcome!

A871977 - Conversations With Dr, Ian Player

I'd like to find out more information on the types of mammoth, their geographical distribution and the timeline of this migration.

It occurred to me whilst researching the terrain for the picture that another good reason for following the Woolly Mammoth might be to find sources of unfrozen water. Or could Woolly Mammoths get all their water from their food? Eating snow doesn't seem to be a good idea.

Amy

Amy, your research for the picture has thrown up an interesting point - since all creatures need water to survive, and since it is now accepted that humans followed the trail of mammoths, it seems natural to say that mammoths literally led humans to water. This is most interesting. I wonder too, if mammoths shared the same capacity for memory as their descendants, our modern-day elephant. Interestingly enough, you begin to see the extreme importance of an elephant's memory when it comes to locating water in arid places.

For example, I saw on TV recently a programme that looked at the remarkable desert elephants of Namibia and Mali. The rainy season notwithstanding, these elephants have to rely on astonishing powers of memory in order to meet their body's demands for 60 gallons of water a day (if my memory serves me right) and that's in desert conditions! How do they do it? Well, they locate sources of water underground - wells, springs, rivers etc - and burrow in the arid sand up to six feet deep to get them. But what's *really* remarkable, is that they can remember a source of water they had once visited FORTY YEARS AGO!

Did mammoths have the same (or even more pronounced) memory facilities? And did we humans too, struggling to survive alongside the mammoth, have far greater memory capacities - more enhanced instincts - than we have today?

I can't answer your other mammoth questions just yet, Amy. But hopefully soon you will be able to find out more here when the Mammoth Journey project information database start to fill up.

Lovely picture of Desert Elephants here:-http://www.imaginethatphoto.com/Web%20Gallery%20Table/pages/Desert%20Elephants.htm

Humph. I bet they didn't have to build a time machine to take *their* photo.

I saw that programme about the desert elephants too. That's probably what connected up inside what passes for my brain.

You see, my reasoning is that this 'blazing a trail' theory is ok until you get onto the frozen steppes. If you stand on a small hillock you can see for 30 kilometres in all directions so who needs a mammoth? Also, if I was in that situation I wouldn't be salivating at the sight of mammoth - I'd pick on something more my own size like an antelope. But water would be a problem - as would shelter. Additional evidence for my fledgling theory might come from the woolly rhino finds. I was particularly interested in the recent find in Burton on Trent because that's where my father is from (although I don't think he's related to the rhino in question ) and I know the lie of the land. It's very flat and very wet. But what would it have been like in the Ice Age? Did the River Trent exist? And why did the Wooly Rhinos want to be there? Of course the question of why people want to be in Burton on Trent is a mystery that continues to this very day .

Ha! Excellent post. I'm going to point Richard Creasey to this thread (he's back in the office tomorrow) and see if he can shed any more light on this - he's currently reading a book related to the subject and his plans to make both a film and a documentary series concerning the migration of the mammoth and the homosapien have been brewing for quite some time now. He may well be able to answer some of your questions. Until then, keep warm. And well watered.

Fortunately Yorkshire is not short of water. It is slightly deficient with regards to warmth but there's not much I can do about that because my computer monitor is incompatible with my central heating system .

Hello

Let me kick off with a url: http://www.mammothsite.com/mammothinfo.html

That is the FAQ page of the Mammoth Site Museum, in South Dakota, USA. The museum is in a National Park. I don?t know if you been to many of them, but the National Parks I?ve been to in the States always turn out to be hugely more impressive than I expect them to be. For instance the best place to take a photo is invariably where there?s sign: ?Best Place to take a Photo? And its equally invariably a fantastic view.

And the site is pretty good too. Have a look.

A quick thought about standing on a small hillock and seeing for 30 kilometres in all directions. As I understand it the hillocks and were all covered in jungle at the time, mostly because giants like the Mammoth were pulling them down to eat. Remember the Mammoth was a vegetarian softy, which like the whale, provided lots of meat to eat and fur to wear for early man. I also understand that during the Ice Age there were lots of sun spots with pools of water and trees. In other words thinking that the Ice Age meant everywhere on earth was covered in ice is about as inaccurate as suggesting that it rains everyday in the UK. Although it does feel that way right now.

It is, of course, clear from the above that I am at the very, very early stage of research with the project, and no much less than would like to about it all. I will see if I can get some real elephant/mammoth experts on board soon.

I made my decision about the terrain for the picture based on the "Walking with Beasts" programme http://www.bbc.co.uk/beasts/evidence/prog6/index.shtml . They refer to woolly mammoths being spread across "cold, dry plains" from Ireland, across Europe and Russia to the Western half of the US. If you click on the link for further information they helpfully provide a photograph. I haven't yet found any references to land "covered in jungle" - although jungle is such a vague term - in relation to *woolly mammoths*. Other types of mammoth, yes, but not woolly ones.

The site you refer to mentions woolly mammoths being forced south and west by advancing glaciers and this was exactly what I was I trying to represent in the picture.

So where does the truth lie? (a) cold dry plains (b) dense jungle (c) something in between (d) all of the above?

Amy

Goodness lots of good questions and observations here. As a consequence I'm putting up (draft stage done) a Mammoth questions (and answers) page. I'll put lots of pasted in questions from the posts and then get some 'experts' to give us some answers.

I still can't find any references to woolly mammoths in anything other than dry steppe, meadow steppe, spruce forests and sheltered river valleys where willow and alder might grow (they were fond of eating alder and willow shoots apparently).

Richard, what is the title of the book that Sam said you were reading? I'm getting quite into this project now but I'm having trouble finding material on the web with the right sort of academic depth.

BTW the introductory passage of the article to which this thread is attached seems to imply that humans followed the woolly mammoth out of Africa. Since woolly mammoths evolved in Siberia this doesn't seem very likely to me.

But what do I know? I evolved from a wasp!

Amy

Two other matters bothering me at the moment:

Were the migrations of pachyderms and other large mammals contemporaneous with those of human being or did the humans turn up later, find well-worn tracks, and think "What the hell, let's go this way." When I was a youngster playing in the fields I had a fascination for following the tracks left by generations of cows. It wasn't that the rest of the terrain was difficult to cross but it did stop your socks getting snagged on thistles.

How does this theory of human migration fit with the theory of coastal migration? Are the two theories contradictory or complementary?

Amy, Richard's left the office and if the weather's good, he'll be off flying his plane tomorrow. If that's the case, he won't be able to get back to you till Monday. You've raised some really good points here, point which I sadly can't as yet address (I'm only just beginning to find out about the woolly mammoth). However, soon Richard will invite genuine experts in their field to come to the site, to this page, to answer all our questions.

Sam.

Well, it's just not good enough. *waves antennae* He should stay here until I've finished with him .

I'll cope. You don't happen to have the title of that book, do you?

I'm really sorry, I don't. I'll get it too you as soon as I can though.

I'm here! Book titles. I'm not sure if they are the ones you're after, but the two books I've bought (on Ian's recommendation) are: The Call of Distant Mammoths by Peter D. Ward and The Immense Journey by Loren Eiseley.

Thanks, Richard .

In reply to Amy's question about whither or not human's followed established old mammoth tracks. I would have thought that was very likely. Up in Scotland, where there are less roads, it seems obvious to me that most roads follow tracks as originally laid down by drovers moving their cattle to market. Indeed, those that are not now modern roads can still be seen, hundreds of years later. So I would have thought that it would be easy, and only natural, for early humans, exploring the world, to take the obviously marked path. If nothing else it makes it easy to retrace your steps if you want to. Just watch any group of hillwalkers and most of them will follow any path, even ones created by rabbits or streambeds or what have you. So, to my ill informed mind, while some humans might have actually followed the mammoths, I'm sure it was just as likely that they followed paths created by mammoths at an earlier time. A nice easy to follow path and reduced likelyhood of being stepped on.
Anyway, enough of my random speculation, I think I'll go follow some of those links mentioned.

So you're saying that the human tendency to follow paths is some sort of fundamental programming deeper than the need to avoid snagged socks?

Amy

Munchkin, very good points sir - most interesting. I've a feeling that this here Mammoth Journey project is going to grow into something much bigger. Keep your beady een on it - there's more stuff to come! Thanks for popping by.