A Conversation for Come On Down (Literally)

I know how Jean Paul Sartre expects to be tormented

Post 1

paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant

Hell is other people, according to "Huis clos" (No exit"). If people decide how to be tormented, might they be lying about what would be torture for them? People who are doomed to Hell might just be prone to lying. smiley - winkeye


I know how Jean Paul Sartre expects to be tormented

Post 2

Caiman raptor elk - Inside big box, thinking.


Been there. It was rather boring. Windy and cold at the time. OK, I admit... It was a street named 'De Hel'. We walked it all the way. It ends at the municipal border of the rather religious (bible-belt) town of Opheusden.

I refuse to subscribe to any religion that preaches eternal damnation without reprieve after a first offense.

Nice way to show the danger of advertising / influencing.


I know how Jean Paul Sartre expects to be tormented

Post 3

paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant

I knew Jewish man who sang bass in my choral society. He said that Christians had told him he would burn in Hell for not converting. His response was that Jews don't believe in Hell.


I know how Jean Paul Sartre expects to be tormented

Post 4

Caiman raptor elk - Inside big box, thinking.


It is not whether you believe in hell, but does hell believe in you? smiley - run


I know how Jean Paul Sartre expects to be tormented

Post 5

paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant

If Hell exists, and if you qualify for it, your disbelief doesn't matter. If it doesn't exist, you can't make it come into existence by willing it so.

I don't feel like spending a lot of time trying to persuade any deities to change their minds. Humans are low on the pecking order; the gods, if they exist, can see our calculations anyway.

That said, there are religious organizations that run soup kitchens and offer temporary shelter for runaway slaves and political asylum-seekers. They have pot-luck suppers and carol sings and winter carnivals that people can make things for, or empty out their attics for. Ministers have some thought-provoking tings to say now and then.

Does sprayer work? We don't know for sure. The act of praying, if done in a suitable spirit, helps focus the mind. Group prayer helps people feel that they are not alone. This is better than being on social media, because the people you are worshipping with are right there around you.


I know how Jean Paul Sartre expects to be tormented

Post 6

Caiman raptor elk - Inside big box, thinking.


A teacher of mine once had a severe motorcycle accident while on the way to school (we would be his first class of the day). They weren't sure he would make it. Praying gives you something to do when there is nothing you can really do. He did survive, after 12 hours of non- stop surgery, and made a full recovery eventually. Those are moments when you at least get the feeling that the praying might have helped.


I know how Jean Paul Sartre expects to be tormented

Post 7

paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant

For all anyone knows, praying does help. It's just not something that can be proven. I like to think that sending good thoughts in the direction of people who need help is worth doing. If, as many Hindus believe, we are part of one large hivemind, praying does work. The answers we expect don't always come, though.


I know how Jean Paul Sartre expects to be tormented

Post 8

Caiman raptor elk - Inside big box, thinking.


Years ago I have done training to perform some sort of healing by laying on hands. The premise is that there is some sort of universal energy that can be channeled. Even if the effect is a placebo, it doesn't harm, as long as you stress that it is never a replacement of going to a regular doctor. Personally I have experiences that can't be explained by placebo effect. I have felt the location of pain projected in my own body without prior knowledge of what the issue was. My mother has attained an even higher level where she can do the same thing without being in the vicinity of the person she treats. (I could pinpoint exactly at what time she was doing this to me and she could tell me where it hurt). Contrary to other similar movements, You were obliged to treat anyone who asks, and ask for nothing in return.

Since it has been a long time ago that I followed that basic course, out of curiosity I just googled the guy who was running the thing... Turns out he was jailed for illegal practice of medicine and asking extortionate prices for the higher level courses and preaching the end of the world.

Looks like he was onto something with the healing and got carried away... (I wouldn't dare claiming I could treat cancer or HIV with it, but taking away some pain or just being there for someone in need without subscribing to a sect still seems OK with me)


I know how Jean Paul Sartre expects to be tormented

Post 9

paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant

My mother and grandmother had strong episodes of ESP. One night my grandmother heard her father calling to her for help. She left her house an went to his house (which was next door) and found that he had just died. Her mother said that the man had not called out. My mother had many episodes of sensing that something bad was happening to family members.

One day my cousin killed himself. The night before, both my mother and I had alarming thoughts out of the blue. I suddenly wondered what it was like to be dead. Nothing instigated the thoughts. My mother thought that my aunt was in trouble (she soon would be; when she arrived at the cousin's house she would find him dead).

One night I dreamed that someone in my neighborhood had died. The next day I heard that she actually had died. None of this is scientific. Sometimes I've imagined that someone I knew had died, and they were healthy as a horse the next day.

Oh, well.


I know how Jean Paul Sartre expects to be tormented

Post 10

Caiman raptor elk - Inside big box, thinking.


Those things could be a sign that there is more than we can objectively see or they could be something for statisticians to get mad over. I would prefer the first one, despite being a scientist.


I know how Jean Paul Sartre expects to be tormented

Post 11

paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant

One of my grad school profs used the expression "science as we know it."
Science does change as more tools become available


I know how Jean Paul Sartre expects to be tormented

Post 12

Caiman raptor elk - Inside big box, thinking.


I first read fools instead of tools.
(that statement would be equally valid)


I know how Jean Paul Sartre expects to be tormented

Post 13

paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant

At any time, plenty of fools are available


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