h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hi Bob

I have been considering your post from last night and I would like to rethink a few of my points.

First here is a link to a Russian wood burning locomotive http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wood_burning_locomotive_on_Nikolaev_Railway.jpg

Notice the shape of the stack

It has also occurred to me that with the abundance of coal, and the sophistication of UK boiler technology may have meant that most of the Early European locomotives were coal fired?



<BB< has given me a bit more insight on your comment about the mail coach, I will add a short section about them. I assume they were normally part of a passenger train?



After trying to do research for my Entries here I am beginning to believe that we may well become THE web source on the subject. Wouldn't that be a feather in h2g2's hat



F S

Page Turner:
A87791719 - Introduction
A87791728 - Glossary
A87791737 - Scales and Gauges
A87792105 - Baseboard Locations
A87792114 - Themes
A87791746 - Layout
A87791755 - Scenery
- Rolling Stock

The trouble I've had with this project is generally assuming that what happened in the area around me was fairly universal, I'm enjoying learning about all the differences in railways.

You're right, in the UK with the abundance of coal, and comparative scarcity of wood, from the start locomotives would have been coal-fired. As wood was needed to maintain the Royal Navy, I don't think the Admiralty would have allowed the Industrial Revolution to be wood-powered – just because wood literally grows on trees doesn't mean it figuratively grows on trees.

In the UK in the south of England, the London and South Western Railway operated services before the Great War from London city centre through various London suburbs. As the Underground network expanded to the suburbs, it found itself competing with the Underground's electric train stock, and so also adopted the third rail system used by the underground, expanding the third rail through much of the Southern Railway network after the 1923 grouping. So the south of England is third rail powered, while much of the rest of the UK is overhead powered.

I'll also quickly mention EMUs and DMUs – Electronic or Diesel Multiple Units. These are trains without a locomotive, but have the engine located within the carriages making up the train.

<BB<

I put up my third offering;

Working title Model Railways - the Trains at A87798361

I would really like some input to the proper UK name for each of the freight 'cars' as well as anything else I have botched

On an interesting side note I have found about the Brake Van, it seems that the UK has only recently added brakes to all the units of a train. The brake van not only assisted the engine in stopping, but also used a running brake the keep all the units under tension to prevent coupler failure. In the US air brakes have been standard on all units for a very long time. If the air line is broken all the 'train brakes' are immediately employed. This is far beyond the scope of a model railway, but I thought some of you might find it interesting.

I believe the DMUs are a part of the direct drive diesels I mention. Perhaps a short section for 'Running Stock that Also Serves as Rolling Stock'? I am sure all the Underground trains fall into this category.


F S

Thers is not much to add,

Flat Cars - Container Bogie Wagons
Car Carrier Car - Car Transporter Wagon

Change Car to Wagon in the rest of the list will be English

The coaches are fine as they are,

Combination Coaches, the closest in the UK would be break coach, guard at the back luggage in the middle and 3rd class passengers in the front

Good job FS

Thank you bob, you have given me the clue to finding the link to add exactly what I wanted



F

Just an aside to clarify the air brake discussion, in the UK, since the 1889 Omagh train disaster, all passenger trains are required by law to have an automatic brake. In the disaster 80 died including 22 children, and it was concluded that had an automatic brake been in place no-one would have died. By the 1920s the vacuum automatic brake was standard throughout the UK (but the Isle of Wight, with its older stock, continued to use the older Westinghouse Air Brake system first introduced in 1868 and on the Isle of Wight Steam Railway still does).

But as you said, this law did not apply to freight trains.

I don't think the difference between corridor and compartment carriages need be mentioned? (In the UK, travel was originally divided into 1st Class (posh) 2nd Class and 3rd Class, although 2nd Class was quickly abolished leaving 1st and 3rd)

<BB<

Thanks <BB<

>>I don't think the difference between corridor and compartment carriages need be mentioned? (In the UK, travel was originally divided into 1st Class (posh) 2nd Class and 3rd Class, although 2nd Class was quickly abolished leaving 1st and 3rd)

That is exactly the sort of thing I want to add, I just need to learn a bit about them myself first Any help appreciated

I assume the 'compartment carriages' are 1st Class, and are similar to the one we see at the beginning of the first 'Harry Potter' film. Do they convert to 'sleeper' compartments, or just serve as a sitting room?

On the other hand I guess the 'corridor carriages' are just a 'car' with rows of bench seats, like the one we see the children riding in when they leave London at the start of 'The Lion, Witch and the Wardrobe'.

I vaguely remember seeing scenes in films where a train pulled up to the platform and a series of doors opened, one for for each compartment, allowing passenger to board without using the vestibule. I don't recall if this was in the UK, Europe or some place else.

My main intent here is to help the novice sort through the hundreds of different units available and understand the differences.

One point I would like clarified is that I see listings for both a 'Goods Van' and a 'Bogie Goods Van', it seems the difference is a single pair of wheels at each end for the former, and a pair of double bogie axles on the later. Is the term 'bogie' commonly used, or can it de dropped for this usage - should I just add a line or two to the introduction? Does anybody know the basic time of the change, or are they both still in use?

If you look at my 'Temporary Link' in the Rolling Stock introduction, you will find a very extensive list of models that I am using for my translations. If anyone knows of other similar sites like this please post them here and I will take a look.



F S

Q-- I assume the 'compartment carriages' are 1st Class.

A-- Not necessarily in the beginning they were used in all classes 1st class were nicer. If still in use today yes they would be 1st class. Those are the ones similar to the one we see at the beginning of the first 'Harry Potter' film, and are corridor carriages.



Q-- Do they convert to 'sleeper' compartments, or just serve as a sitting room?

A-- No seating only, that is a sleeper and is a separate designation and would be configured almost identical to as a corridor carriage. Megga Posh Pullman and O-E were equipped with toilet facilities in the compartments.

Q-- On the other hand I guess the 'corridor carriages' are just a 'car' with rows of bench seats, like the one we see the children riding in when they leave London at the start of 'The Lion, Witch and the Wardrobe'.

A-- No these were called open carriages and officially called Standard Open
passengers could walk through the carriage the isle was off center the benches generally pairs were 3 sweater one side 2 the other doors were in pairs at each end of the carriage.

------
Q-- I vaguely remember seeing scenes in films where a train pulled up to the platform and a series of doors opened, one for for each compartment, allowing passenger to board without using the vestibule.

A-- Correct, this is a corridor carriage a series of compartments on one side of the carriage accessed by sliding Moore, 2 benches facing each other with a door in each compartment. The corridor went full length of the carriage accessed by 2 doors at each end to both sides of the carriage, there were also doors down the corridor for access without going through the compartments.


Q-- One point I would like clarified is that I see listings for both a 'Goods Van' and a 'Bogie Goods Van', it seems the difference is a single pair of wheels at each end for the former, and a pair of double bogie axles on the later. Is the term 'bogie' commonly used, or can it be dropped for this usage.


A-- Correct bogie can be dropped. However A further common classification is 'Goods Van' was a Box Waggon and a 'Bogie Goods Van' was a 'Goods Wagon' further classification can be made by special use eg; Parcel Van and so on.

Hope that helps

I believe my Trains are ready to run

As always - comments and corrections are most welcome

F S

From the 'Scale section:

Most models are electrically powered, although in larger scales, models of steam locomotives can be powered by diesel locomotives powered by internal diesel engines or 'live steam', coal boiling water and driving wheels via pistons and connecting rods. Although it is possible to buy 00 gauge live steam models of classic steam locomotives, the cost of such a loco is beyond most modellers' pockets; extra equipment is needed in addition to the locomotive.


This seems to be a bit jumbled

Perhaps it should read;

Most models are electrically powered, although in larger scales, models of steam locomotives can be powered by 'live steam', coal - boiling water and driving wheels via pistons and connecting rods. Although it is possible to buy 00 gauge live steam models of classic steam locomotives, the cost of such a loco is beyond most modellers' pockets; extra equipment is needed in addition to the locomotive.

Diesel locomotives powered by internal diesel engines are also available in the larger gauges.


F S

Good point about the Scale section.

In the earliest carriages used in the UK, each compartment had its own door to the outside and would fit about six people comfortably. This was because early carriages were based on stagecoaches, came either as four wheeled or six wheeled, and as a stagecoach or other wagon does not contain doors to other compartments, the compartments did not allow access to the other compartments on the train, other than by opening the door when the train is at a station, going outside and opening a neighbouring door to a different compartment.

<BB<

Updated the coaches and carriages section to reflect <BB<'s comments Thanks

F S

Um... I watched you talking for a while here and I just want to say that although I think it's amazing what you guys do this is still an Entry about Model Railways, you don't have to tell everything you know about real railways. Don't make it all *too* long. By now I think you could easily make an additional Entry about historic railways from this.

Trust me - anything that exists in a real railway, a modeller will somewhere want to recreate in their back room in lovingly precise to scale detail

But it is a good point worth mentioning.

Did you notice that following on from our model railway discussion here I've written: A87796255 The Isle of Wight Steam Railway

<BB<

On the other hand if you put it all into the model railway Entry those people who are interested in *real* railways may not read it. If you write an Entry about real railways and link to it from the model railway Entry, on the other hand, the model builders will certainly read it.

I'm afraid I didn't see it, no

Hi Tav

Most of my 'real world' questions have only been used to clarify a few words or add another type of model 'car' that is available.

An in-depth entry of railways would be massive, as the 'The Dieselisation Programme' A87769507 clearly shows, along with Bluebottle's Steam Railway.

I do agree that 'non-model' references need to be left to a minimum, For instance I do not talk about air and vacuum brakes in the Entry, but I do explain why it is proper to have more than one Brake-Coach in a passenger train. People who run model trains try to be as accurate as possible with the units they run.

As always it is a delicate balancing act to proved just enough information for the reader without adding too much detail.


F S

I just wanted to make sure you don't get lost somewhere in your research.

Are we at the stage where we can duplicate the articles (as with Uni projects the original entries are edited, so back-ups need to be created) and try to find an interested sub-editor?

<BB<

If there are no further comments I think we are good to go.

I have my Entries on my drive, with the code, so if you would like to make all the back-ups to keep them accessible and together I have no objection. However you would like to proceed.



F S

Okay, well if there are no more comments by tomorrow, then I'll take it to the next step.

So can you create back-ups of your entries today/tomorrow, and I'll do the same with the others?

<BB<