h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Entry: The Scots Leid - A828164
Author: The Munch Khan - U55447

A828164 - The Scots Leid
An article on the Scots Language with some hopefully enlightening examples.

Don't have a whole lot of time to check out the content right now, but a quick formatting hint - instead of using , put each and every paragraph into a ... tag. is hardly ever used, and if your entry gets picked, the sub-editor will do it anyway

Ta. Never really liked the gaps in between paragraphs that gives you but if that is the way I'll look to get it changed over in the next couple of days.

You say that Scots is not a dialect, that it is a separate language from English. This is not a generally accepted view. The general view among linguists (and I'm hoping a linguist will come along soon to back me up) is that Scots is a dialect. It is the only surviving dialect of English, since the dialects of Dorset and Wexford died out in the 18th and 19th Centuries.

I believe it is listed in the European Charter as a seperate language. http://www.lallans.co.uk/info.html#charter but could be so much self-agrandisment I suppose.

Fascinating entry - well done! (At some stage you'll have to translate the title!)

There's a certain amount of what I regard as Scots that I hear even as far south as North Yorks. Eg 'bairn' - 'there's a canny bairn' etc. Do you know how Scots relates to perhaps Northumbrian or Cumbrian talk?

One interesting thing is the way something like 'Do you mind?' has totally different meanings in English and Scots. Are there any other examples of this?

Although you rightly mention Burns as a prime exponent of Scots, would it be correct to say that Walter Scott was also?

Bels

An fascinating entry. Whether Scots is a language or a dialect is probably something that is dependant on which side of the border you live.

The Regimental March of my old Regiment, The Cheshire Regiment, as English a regiment as you can get, is called Wha Wadna Fecht for Charlie. Nothing to do with the Prince of Wales as a lot seem to think, but Charles Edward Stuart, the young pretender.

It is interesting that my book of English poets include Robbie Burns amongst its contributors along with Dillon Thomas and W B Yeats. Perhaps examples of English parochialism.

Regards

Stuart

I think this entry doesn't do justice to the influence and historical importance of Gaelic.

In the intro, you say: 'Scotland has its own distinct language. And its not Gaelic either.' Are you suggesting that Gaelic isn't Scottish? The difference between Scots Gaelic and Irish dialects appears to be
greater than that between Scots and English. If you accept Scots as a language rather than a dialect, you should refer to *two* distinct Scottish languages.

I think you should refer to the fact that for much of Scotland's existence as an independent state, the Highlands/Lowlands divide was linguistic as well as cultural, with the highlanders keeping the Gaelic language and clan system.

You say that it was Viking and German influence that gave the distinctive 'ch' sound as found in the word loch, but any dictionary will tell you that the word loch is of Gaelic origin, and that 'ch' sound is very common in both Gaelic and Irish. Why ignore the influence which is on your doorstep?

How many people in Northern Ireland really believe in 'Ulster Scots' at all? Of course there are some dialect words used in Ulster which are Scots rather than English, but the claims that this makes it a separate language owe more to tit-for-tat hopes of government subsidy than to any serious linguistic background.

Azara

Good point on the Gaelic there. I was trying to point out that while everyone knows about Gaelic there is no where near as much knowledge of Scots. But your right I could do with re-writing it a bit better.
Oh, and to my all be it limited knowledge Ulster Scots is just as valid as Doric or Lowland Scots. I'll see if I can find any references for that.

I think referring to Ulster Scots might undermine your argument for Scots as a separate language rather than strengthen it. I'd be interested if you can find any references to more than just 'dialect' or 'dialect words' from before about 10 years ago.

Azara

I had this pointed out to me the other day http://www.sundayherald.com/27636 which basically goes over this arguement. Will see if I can do some more work on this at the weekend, thanks for all the comments, all happily received

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Oops, must make those changes about Gaelic and such quickly then. Me own fault for going on holiday I suppose.

Congratulations!

Munchkin, it's too late to make changes to your entry. A copy of it has already been taken and is at A839207. I suggest you contact the subeditor of that entry (Isaac S) to discuss any changes you want to make.

Ta. I will have a think tonight if I can find the time. I definately want to change that opening statement about Gaelic, the more I look at it the more flippant it becomes.