h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Entry: The evolution of the Russian Language - A817391
Author: Anna Banana - U202024

Dear peers,

as I've looked in h2g2 for Russian stuff I have seen 'The Russian Language' (A622513). That Entry is focussed on the modern Russian grammar and the russian alphabet. It also touches the subject of the origins, however it contains a very simplified (IMHO also misleading) view on that topic. For this reason I wrote this entry. I think it can be helpful, and stand for its own.

Please be just

Anna Banana

I'm sure this entry does have the merit to stand alone. Well done

I also love the fact that a bloke called Cyril is involved, but that's just because I'm very childish.

On a sensible note, are there any more issues you can think of to include in this entry? I'm an expert on neither history nor languages, but it does strike me as being a little short (this is not necessarily a bad thing, though ).

Secondly, I believe your spellings of 'Byelorussian' and 'Byzatine' are technically incorrect. This is completely understandable, given that the English language has an entire letter ('y') which is practically redundant. Your transliterations are probably more accurate, in fact.

B

Hiya Anna

This is an interesting subject to me - Russian comes across as a somewhat mysterious language. I'd like to make the following points.

First off, a few small changes: East-Slavic > Eastern Slavic. Church-Slavic > Old Church Slavonic. Czar > Tsar

Revoluziya: try another example - not a particularly French word.


Generally, I'd like to see the following included. I think you need to touch on Slavic languages as a whole, briefly explaining that the 3 groups (the other one being Southern Slavic) evolved separately.

OK, the first Russian state was centred around Kiev, so that dialect must have had most prestige first. Then things moved north to first Novgorod then Moscow, since when Moscow has dominated Russia, and the Muscovite dialect with it. But what about the Ukraine and Byelorussia since then - how diverse were the languages? I believe that the Slavic languages are all quite similar - is this right?

The invasion of the Golden Horde had a major impact on Russian - this needs to be emphasised, as does the influence of Polish on Ukrainian during Polish rule. When Polish is mentioned, you could add "a Western Slavic language" or something like that.

OK then, that's all for the moment. Sorry if I appear to be rambling on...

When I saw the title, I thought, now who can have written that and - Oh, look, it *is* you, Anna!

Short and sweet. I didn't know about Cyril or the other chap either. Do you know more about them?

What's the difference between Czar and Tsar?

Caper Plip

The spelling.

B

Hiya,

i like this entry,

i agree it looks a little short, for what seems like it should be quite a big subject, but it does seem to cover all the main elements.

good advice from Mr Naples, I think.

hi PC,

about the 'czar/tsar' issue: I think it's just a matter of convention, but Brit English prefers the second option. It's not all that obvious, but did you spot that it is derived from old Julius himself?

I think this is probably the root of the 'czar' option, whilst the 'sound' is more like 'ts' (Anna will correct me if i'm wrong, I hope )

Now, to *really* digress, in looking up 'czar' i found myself face to face (so to speak) with the head-word 'cyrillic'; irresistable, under the circumstances!

so, i look up 'cyrillic' and learn a new and frankly exotic word:

"distinguished from the other Slavonic alphabet, the Glagolitic."

Definitely one for 'call my bluff'!

just thought i'd share that with you,
all the best with this entry, i think it will complement the more 'technical' piece nicely.

cya
spiff

Oh yeah, I knew about cyrillic, come to think of it...

The cyrillic alphabet, isn't it?

B

I really don't know anything about this topic but I do find it interesting to say the least. So I'll just leave it at this and say well done for such an interesting entry. Maybe it would be a little easier to read if you put in a tag or two. But well done anyway.

Good evening and thanks everybody, I´ll keep working on this entry, as your positive criticism is motivating me to do more, but I´ll be off-line for the next week, so please be patient.

See you, Anna Banana

PS. The improvements will come somewhat slowly as I can only do this at night.

Stick with it, Anna!

I'd love to know more a bit more about Cyril and Methodi and how they came to have such an influence - that is if anything else is known about them.

Hi there, just to stick my oar into the conversation...

Bielorussian (or Byellorussian) - whilst you've used the most appropriate transliteration from the original alphabet I looked the spelling up in Britannica and they give the 'anglicised' spelling as
Country: Belarus
Language: Belarussian


Also - and this is nit-picking here

Bizantine should by Byzantine but maybe it would be better to say...

"The christianisation of Kiev by the Byzantine Empire...."

As your version seems to me to make 'Bizantine' a person?

Another word you could put in, if you know the history would be the russion for quickly - BbICTPO (or as close as I can get without the ability to write in Cyrillic ) That would give you links in the other direction from Russian to French, they pinched the russian word to use in French for a restaurant that served people quickly (Bistro)



whisky

Hi Anna,

This is a fascinating subject but I agree that it needs fleshing out - you have packed a lot of information into a small space.

Some suggestions for things which would have helped me to understand better:

1. You say that a specific feature of the Russian language is the great number of foreign words it acquired - are there any theories as to why this occured?

2. The story of Cyril and Methodius (not only monks but saints) is a very interesting one and worth relating here. It would help to break up the wealth of technical information a bit.

3. I am not sure what you mean by "maintenance of the language" in the last paragraph.

4. What was it about Pushkin's work in particular that brought "order" to modern Russian?

Gubernatrix

"1. You say that a specific feature of the Russian language is the great number of foreign words it acquired - are there any theories as to why this occured?"

Centuries of foreign rule - the same reason why English has thousands of French words. But mentioning a little about who the Tartars were and what kind of vocabulary was introduced (ie whether it was administrative, military, or of all kinds) would be nice.

Hi Jack,

As far as I know, Russia has never been ruled by any English-, German-, or French-speaking peoples. Maybe trade contributed to the absorption of foreign words.

Also, although many English words may derive from Norman French, I don't think that the French words people use today (cafe, milieu, ingenue etc) come as a result of foreign rule, I think their use is aspirational.

Gubernatrix

Hallo, everybody, I am back to the net and discussion. I´ve thought about all the wishes you have had and came to the conclusion that it will be quite difficult and the entry will grow to a giant one. Some things are, doubtless, important and should stay in, other should be a subject of their own entry.

Dear Jack from near the Forbidden City, first of all thank you for spelling advices. I would like to write an entry about the evolution of Russian language and not Ukrainian or Belarussian. Otherwise they evolved together and I´ll mention it. I´ve added some general information about the Slavic languages. They are quite similar, but only quite. I am not sure if Italians can understand Spanish without any problem, as well as Polish or Serbs cannot understand Russian.

The Tartar-Mongolian invasion had a big influence on Russia and its language, but remember, that Russians had been surrounded by Turkic-speaking nations for a long time before the Tartars arrived. And the ancient Eastern Slavonic had been influenced by Turkic before it was divided into Russian, Ukrainian and Belarussian. I am sure 'den´gi' wasn´t brought by the Tartars.

Hallo, Spiff, you are right about the pronounciation and I´ve liked the idea of 'Glagolitic', which will also appear in a new version of my entry. By the way is it possible to delete the first version and let only the final one to stay in h2g2?
Thank you and see you, yours Anna Banana (still without Banana smiley)

Hi, Whiskey (nice name),

thank you for having looked up in Britannica, I think it´s just the crazy nationalization of the ex-USSR republics, as your spelling is a self-determination of the Belarussians, meanwhile I´ve used the traditional Russian term. I´ll just 'political' correct the entry.

The story about 'bistro' is very funky, but I think it should be in another entry about the influence of Slavonic languages on the Western European ones.

Yours Anna Banana

Hi Anna,

You've several choices if you want to change the entry... either just press 'edit entry' and you can change and delete the text in the entry itself. (That's the easiest way out

Or, you can start a completely new entry and delete this one - to delete it, first of all, you'd have to move this conversation out of Peer Review... to do that, just click on the 'Peer Review' button on the left hand side of the screen... your entry will be among the list at the bottom of the screen, with a little 'x' beside it, clicking on the 'x' will move this conversation so that it is under the entry itself...

Then go to the entry, click on 'edit entry' then scroll down the page and eventually you'll find a section...

"Delete this Entry - If you created this Guide Entry by mistake, or no longer require it, you can delete it by pressing this button:"

Press the button and the entry will no longer be visible - however, it is still in the database, so you can restore it at a later date if you so wish.

Of course - if you start a completely fresh entry - don't forget to put it into Peer Review

One other point about Peer Review, the important word in here is 'Peer', everyone is entitled to their opinion, but don't forget, you, as the author of the piece have the right to disregard any comments you don't feel would improve the piece (there is a perfect smiley for doing this - ), it is your work and everyone will respect that.

Anyway, as I said earlier in the thread.. This has all the makings of an excellent entry - please don't give up on it


whisky

Hallo, Gubernatrix, (what does it mean?)

you´ve made the best criticism of all , I´ll try to put some explanations into the entry, although now it becomes another one with lots of historical information.

I have to research the story of Cyril and Methodius thorougher and it will take some time before I will have written everything about it.

Thank you and bye,

Anna Banana