h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

"There are two principle types of witchcraft and many sub divisions within this"
- and this would be traditional and wiccan witchcraft, I'm curious, I always thought religion was a single practice/belief system.
I'm also curious as to why Wicca is one of these types, a new pagan faith. There could of been any number of religions included here, why was Christian, Satanist, new age witchcraft not included in these 'types'?

"As a religion it has one god, that it considers common with all others and that people just see different faces. Its members include pagans, Christians and others."
- Witchcraft and religion are not two things that should be mixed, yes witchcraft can be included in any world belief, but it is far from it's own religion.

"is far more into ceremonial and more formal"
- lol, obviously not a member of the pagan community then! :D

"As a religion it is a new pagan form based on the lord and the lady, devised from sun and moon."
- An odd way of putting it, althoug it is hard to ut into words what Wicca is, espeshaly with it's constant morphing, however that was a bit weak.

Hi Researcher 204626,

Answered I think on another entry, I look forward to seeing your article, covering what you believe. Tolerance of others views perhaps is not as high on your agenda as mine.

Aqua

I'm afraid I read the first entry rather differently than you, Aqua; it seemed to me to be asking some good questions, rather than intending to show a lack of respect or intolerance.

My own ideas on your definitions of witchcraft and Wicca are also rather different than yours. I'd be interested in discussing them if you're amenable.

I would be delighted to talk to you about what you believe. The article I was answering her was a carried forward argument from another area. As I had answered it elswher I did not here fully.

Aqua

I think a couple of interesting questions were raised by the post, though perhaps not in the most sensitive manner. I'm completely new to h2g2, so please forgive me for not having yet navigated my way through the conversation you referred to in which you answered the points. If I'm simply going over old ground, I'd be interested in reading that, if you'll point me in the right direction

Really, I'm interested in clarification of a few points.

> I'm also curious as to why Wicca is one of these types, a new pagan faith. There could of been any number of religions included here, why was Christian, Satanist, new age witchcraft not included in these 'types'?>

This, I thought, was a good point - my understanding is that witchcraft is a catchall name for a variety of forms of folkmagic, and its definition tends to depend on the context. That said, I'm aware of witches working within various belief systems, such as Christianity and Judaism; I'm also aware of LeVeyan Satanists referring to themselves as witches and practising magic within their religious framework. So I'm curious as to why they were left out. I'm wondering if your article is one you're planning on exapanding, or if you determined that these other forms of witchcraft were either outside your area of familiarity or that they did not fall into your definition of witchcraft. I'd be really interested in your thinking on that.

>"As a religion it has one god, that it considers common with all others and that people just see different faces. Its members include pagans, Christians and others.">

I'd be interested in a little clarification of your point regarding Pagans (as I am one, and am not qualified to really deal with the others mentioned ). If you don't mind my suggestion, I think the piece would benefit from a little more expansion on this. What kinds of Pagans are you talking about? Are they Pagan monotheists, or are you talking about all Pagans? That kind of thing

> - Witchcraft and religion are not two things that should be mixed, yes witchcraft can be included in any world belief, but it is far from it's own religion.>

This was another interesting point, in that the argument over whether or not it is appropriate to use the term "witchcraft" to identify a religion is fascinating and ongoing, and something I'm sure you could delve more deeply into.

> "is far more into ceremonial and more formal"
- lol, obviously not a member of the pagan community then! :D>

Also a good point - many Pagans are using forms of magic that have their roots firmly in Ceremonial Magic. Some circles I've been to have been extremely "high mass", very structured and dramatic, scripted to the nth degree, etc., whilst others in the same Tradition have been very informal. I do get your idea of differentiating between CM and other forms of withcraft, but historically CM has been influenced by traditional forms of magic and has done plenty of its own influencing .

My own assumption about CM practitioners is that they are heavily Judeo-Christian; that their magic is more about controlling forces than working with them; and that they require props where other forms of magic do not (handy though they are). But I could be very wrong, as I haven't made an indepth study of CM (to be truthful, I've never found a source that captured my interest). At any rate, because of my assumptions, and because I know that CM and other forms of magical practise tend to overlap, I'm interested in a fuller explaination of that one sentence.

Pretty amazing that one sentence can generate so much speculation - maybe it's magic!

>"As a religion it is a new pagan form based on the lord and the lady, devised from sun and moon."
- An odd way of putting it, althoug it is hard to ut into words what Wicca is, espeshaly with it's constant morphing, however that was a bit weak.>

It's not how I would have phrased it, and I'm a little unsure as to precisely what you mean by the phrase "a new pagan form based on the lord and the lady", devised from sun and moon".

My inference is that you're saying that Wicca is:

* a modern Pagan religion

* focused on a God and Goddess (duotheistic)

* that this God and Goddess are the God of the Sun and Goddess of the Moon.

Now here's where it gets tricky. Am I to infer that Wiccans only worship this one God and this one Goddess? Or that this is a central tenet of Wicca, without which one cannot be Wiccan? Like that.

*I* would have said that Gardner's theology appears to have been one of balance between male and female dieties, and that, as a man of his time, influenced heavily by Classical Graeco-Roman mythology, he naturally associated the Sun with "masculine energy" and the Moon with "feminine energy". I would also have said that modern Wiccans may be monists (all deities are the various faces of a Supreme Being); are often duotheists (worshipping a God and Goddess of whom all other deities are deemed to be "aspects"); polytheists (deities as discrete entities); pantheists (all the world is sacred); or any combination thereof.

But that's me

So, after all that rambling, my honest reaction to your piece was that there were a few things I felt were skimmed over and I wanted to see them dealt with a little more indepth. As I've only written 2 Guides myself (one to Asatru and one to Blue Star Wicca), I'm hardly an expert and wouldn't pretend to be one, but I do think you have interesting things to say and would like to see the article expanded in some areas to deal more fully with the subject.

I hope this reads coherently!