h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Entry: Pre-Celtic Ireland - A807464
Author: Gnomon - U151503

Do your worst!

ok this is a bit picky but...

"Up to about 12,000 BC, Ireland was covered in ice"

Is not strictly true, there are over 4,500,000,000 years of histroy and Ireland wasn't covered by ice for all of them. This is referring only to the last major ice age but I can't thikn of a better way of wording it? You could find out when the ice arrived and put between 60,000BC and 12,000BC, Ireland was covered in ice...but this leaves the way clear for some other picky person to ask what was happening before this.

Other than that I enjoyed it (or rather I enjoyed the bits I scanned through and I'll be back for a full read when I've got a bit more time)

Worst? There is not worst. Couldn't fault in at all Gnomon - didn't even find a typo.

A triumph, very interesting stuff. Now I know why an Irish mate of mine wasn't all that impressed when I made him visit Carnac in Brittany which has hundreds of staning stones, Dolmens etc...

Good point about the ice. I'll have to think of some way of rephrasing that without having to give a long explanation.

Have a look now. Is that any better?

Hi Gnomon!

Another cracking entry! I've one suggestion and one amendment to make.

"Torcs, lunulas and gorgets' - now I know what a torc and a gorget is, but not a lunula. All three could probably do with footnotes (or one footnote for all three).

xxxgallons/litres? I assume you are doing research on this - do you have the figure yet?

OOOH I do like this article I have to say. I can't fault it at all.

So there goes most of my content for my early history of Northern Ireland article.

Well done Gnomon. I'll look at the detail a bit later on and use the strength of my O'level in Archaeology to critique it.

I didn't know they did 'O' levels in Archaeology!

Now I do.

I did it in lower sixth as I was only doing 3 A levels. It was a fun year and fun class, we even went on a field day all over County Down.

Reminds me of a song - She's the star of the County Down

(off-topic I know, - I'll shut up now)

I'm sorry about the xxx gallons/litres thing. I saw the figure in a book which I haven't access to. I decided to change it to "enough water to cook a deer" but somehow my changes didn't get saved before I submit it. It's fixed now.

I'll consider a footnote on torcs, gorgets and lunulas.

Hi Gnomon,

When sifting through Peer Review, one has to contend with the mediocre, the irrelevant and sometimes, absolute dross. But occasionally something crops up that stands head and shoulders above the rest that makes all the previous effort worthwhile. This is one of those occasions.

I have no doubt the Scouts will be tripping over each other to recommend this as soon as the seven days is up.



Stuart

Hi Gnomon,

When sifting through Peer Review, one has to contend with the mediocre, the irrelevant and sometimes, absolute dross. But occasionally something crops up that stands head and shoulders above the rest that makes all the previous effort worthwhile. This is one of those occasions.

I have no doubt the Scouts will be tripping over each other to recommend this as soon as the seven days is up.



Stuart

I've added a few sentences explaining what torcs, lunulas and gorgets are.

Superb article Gnomon - from someone who admitted knowing nothing about pre-Celtic Ireland a few weeks ago to this it's extremely impressive.

I have a question about your assertion that all Irish soil is acidic, as my understanding was that Ireland is split in two - acidic (boggy) soils predominate across Ulster, Connacht and West Munster, while the soils to the east tend to be more neutral, given the high prevalence of limestone, and consequently better drainage, in these regions. I'm not sure though, so I'll check this tonight. There is also a bit of a contradiction here which probably does not need to be examined in this article, but bogs under certain conditions can preserve organic material for millenia, as evidenced by the discoveries of mummified bodies in bogs across the continent, and the excellent preservation of bog oaks in Irish bogs.

I think also there is some evidence to suggest that Neolithic farmers caused the dramatic karst landscape of the Burren. Don't know whether you need to mention it though.

The number of megalithic tombs may actually be on the low side. Apparently, farmers don't like having an object on their site listed as an antiquity, as it means that they need to protect it. The whole landscape in reality is covered by thousands of ancient tombs, but many of them never make it into the ordnance survey maps, and consequently many of them have been destroyed due to the rampant development of Ireland in the last 30-40 years.

Portal tombs / Dolmens are not just an Irish thing. I was in Brittany a few weeks ago, and I saw some extremely impressive dolmens there. Also, I disagree that we have anything better than Carnac (with the possible exception of our passage tombs). Carnac is incredible, and possibly one of the most awe-inspiring megalithic sites in the world. Again, this is just me waffling on, and I recognise that you didn't mention that dolmens *were* just an Irish thing ...

There is some evidence to suggest apparently that for a period between the end of the Bronze Age, and the start of the Iron Age, that the country went into some sort of decline. Farming seems to have diminished significantly at this time, indicating either a war or natural problem.

Anyway, to summarise, I doubt if anything I have said here needs to be added into the article, its good enough to go in right away. I'll check up on the acidity thing though..

Cheers,

Woodpigeon

Thanks for those comments, Woodpigeon. All the archaeology books I've read (in the last few weeks ) suggest that the absence of preserved remains is due to the acidic soil, so I'd certainly be interested in finding out if there are exceptions. I think I will ask Azara as well, as she knows about that sort of thing.

The figure of 1200 monuments is fairly well entrenched in the literature as well. I've no doubt there are plenty more. And I haven't even mentioned the 30 - 40,000 Iron Age ring forts!

Woodpigeon, I believe you're referring to my post about Carnac there. I've been there twice and find the place stunning. On the second occasion I took a friend and he just wasn't impressed but I think that's mainly because he wasn't very interested. I don't think he ever said that the megaliths in Ireland were better than in Brittany.

Just another thing - should you mention some of the most interesting areas in Ireland from a pre-Celtic point of view? Areas such as the Ceide fields in Mayo, Lough Gur etc? Extensive excavations have revealed much information about life and death back in those times.