h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Another email on the subject from someone else. This time I have not included the author's name or address as it was sent to me rather than in the form of an open letter like the last one.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Sir,

Amazing website, with so many flags!

I note that you have included a new flag in the Celtic nations section, where you state “There are seven Celtic nations / tribes, all connected by common history and culture.” The Celtic family of nations has six well established members, and one that there has been some debate about. The six established members are Cornwall, Wales, Brittany, Isle of Man, Scotland and Ireland. These six are established academically and by cross-national organisations including the International Celtic Congress, the Celtic League and a whole host of European focused institutions. In the 1980s there was a long-running debate over the credentials of Galicia as a Celtic nation. The Celtic league eventually settled on the view of linguistic criteria for nationhood. That a Celtic language should have been spoken in the territorial area in modern times and that the Celtic language should still be an important part of that national community. Each of the six established Celtic nations stand strongly under these criteria, the Celtic league recognised that Galicia had strong Celtic traditions especially in folklore and traditional music, which had much in common with Irish music, but its status was more of a region within Europe, with strong Celtic traditions. Celtic Nations therefore welcome links with Galicia, through the Atlantic arc organisation and the Celtic watersports Festival where we can value our common heritage. Many under a spirit of community solidarity would not argue that Galicia could be considered as a Celtic nation.

However, none of the aforementioned would recognise Devon as a Celtic nation. Devon would fail all criteria that would be commonly recognised amongst the existing community of Celtic Nations. It does not have the strengths of Galicia and to the other Celtic nations the Devon inclusion in your Celtic Nation section would be particularly offensive. If you do respect the beliefs of the millions across the world who struggle to express their Celtic identity then you will not devalue them by including the Devon flag in the Celtic nation section. Can I also point out that many people from Cornwall will be offended by the description next to their national flag. If you want to be a bit more politically neutral then rather “England, County of Cornwall”, possibly “UK, Region or Province of Cornwall”, would be more appropriate. I hope you will respond to these concerns, and look forward to a positive response. I have copied this to the Cornwall secretary of the Celtic League and the Cornwall Human rights watch organisation co-ordinator.

“We respect all beliefs...”
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I have just updated my website to include a brief comment on the dedication of the flag to St Petrock, and an addition to the 'folklore and culture' page about the reinstatement of the 'Obby 'Oss tradition at Combe Martin (thanks to Plymouth Exile).

As to Mr Flags latest respondent - he or she is at least a little more polite.

I tend to agree with the 'England, County of Cornwall' bit. Many buying the Cornish flag probably won't see it that way. Could I suggest 'Duchy of Cornwall' ??

As to the comments on the inclusion of Devon - I don't agree. I strongly suggest that not only Devon, but other areas within 'England' might rightly claim a Celtic heritage - Cumbria and Northumumbria to name two.

On the other hand areas within Scotland might object to a Celtic tag - the Shetlands may rather claim a Viking ancestry.

I would comment that I have not heard of any protests from any other quarter than the Cornish.

By the way Davyth, I had a rush of blood to the head yesterday and emailed our friend Angarrad, with links to my webpage (although I suspect that is what he was referring to in his correspondence). Fundamentalist anti-regionalist and Europhobe I don't think. No response as yet.

Hi folks. Just spotted that the official South West Tourism website Westcountry Now is featuring the Devon flag prominently on its home page linking to a feature about the flag. That's a significant step towards official recognition. Here's a link

http://www.westcountrynow.com/main/articles/home.cfm

Cheers

Kevin

I am intrigued that the person who wrote to Mr Flag is going to report us to the Cornwall Human Rights watch organisation co-ordinator (very imposing title - I wonder what he/she actually does). I am afraid that the mind boggles as to how anything that Mr Flag or any of us have done, in any way violates the human rights of the Cornish people. But then, if you believe what you read on the TGG web site, the Cornish people have been subjected to “genocide”, so I suppose that waving a Devon Flag could easily be construed as violating the human rights of the Cornish. Now why didn’t we think about reporting Cornish motorists, whenever they drove cars with St. Piran Flag bumper stickers through Devon, for violating the human rights of Devonians. If this whole business wasn’t so pathetic, it would be laughable.

Plymouth Exile

Ah... it's flags you see. They have this effect.

I could keep you amused for HOURS with the complaints we get every single day.

We make the Israeli flag, and the Palestinians object. The Palestinian flag, and American Jews object. The Northern Cyprus flag and the Greeks object. The Kurdish flag and the Iraqis (used to) object. The East Turkistan flag , and the Chinese object. The flag of Devon, and the Cornish object. I could go on...

It's all tremendous fun

As I've said elsewhere, the Cornish Nationalists often make themselves look very foolish in this way. It's a shame, as I'm actually very pro-Cornish; I'd like to see them given the recognition they deserve and not be just a remote and oft-forgotten county of England. Kicking out at their neighbours in this way is just petty and devalues their whole cause.

Sadly, I've seen this sort of thing elsewhere - many Welsh people, rather than celebrating their own fascinating history and culture, seem determined to define their national identity simply as 'Not English'.

Before anyone questions my qualifications on this, I must point out that I'm that rarest of things: a proud Devonian with a Cornish ancestry and an O-level in Cymraeg!

Mr Flag,

I don't think it is just the flag in this case, as a detailed look at some of the Cornish Nationalist web sites will reveal. The Nationalists have a psychological need to feel unique, and not English.

As the only county that has a border with Cornwall, Devon comes in for most abuse. In order to achieve a proper sense of uniqueness, they feel compelled to demonstrate how different they are from Devonians. In reality of course, there is very little difference, so differences have to be invented. For a long time now the Nationalists have tried to perpetuate the myth that there is a distinct racial boundary at the River Tamar, Celts to the West and Saxons to the East. Where history does not show such a divide, then history must be wrong and corrected. If one disputes the new concocted history, the argument is that the objecter is obviously misinterpreting the historical data, so a stalemate ensues.

Recent advances in DNA analysis have conclusively shown that there is indeed no racial divide at the Tamar (both sides being predominently Celtic). This has broken the stalemate and hence resulted in the Nationalists expressing even more contempt for Devionians for having the audacity to rob them of their uniqueness. The Devon Flag is seen as just one more weapon used by the Devonians to erode their uniqueness, so the flag must therefore be attacked.

You will notice that I have always referred to the Cornish Nationalists, and not the Cornish people in general, as the Nationalists represent a very small minority and the vast majority of Cornish people get on very well with their Devon neighbours.

Plymouth Exile

Parrferris,

I too have part Cornish (and part Scottish) ancestry, but I am mostly Devonian. I also feel that Cornwall has had a raw deal from Westminster, but Devon has fared only slightly better.

As you rightly say, the behaviour of some of the Nationalists only serves to make them a laughing stock. The Cornish people do not deserve this.

Plymouth Exile

This 'Flag website' is doing a great job, but I wonder if it isn't being overused for things which might be better discussed under the Celtic Devon message board.

Anyhow, I have just posted a message there which gives some evidence that the Celtic language was spoken in Devon up to the fourteenth century.

This is relevant to those (from Cornwall) who seem to feel threatened by Devon having a Celtic identity of its own.

Ozzie Exile is quite right. We have been tending to cross over into 'Celtic Devon' territory in recent posts, so let's get back to the Celtic Devon site for such discussions, and leave this forum for Devon Flag postings.

For the benefit of recent visitors to this forum, the Celtic Devon forum is at:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/place-devon/A718102

We look forward to seeing your posts there.

Plymouth Exile

Heads-up!

At the end of August we're piloting a range of flag windsocks - the sort of thing that people who don't have space for a flag can fly anywhere - and I've decided to take a bit of a risk and include Devon and Cornwall (in the interest of fairness).

The thing is we're not doing many - a hundred Devon ones at most - and there's every chance they'll be a one-off batch. Just wanted to give you advanced warning.

They'll be online from today here:
http://www.mrflag.com/display_product.asp?id=1404&category=143&affiliate=43

Regards
MrFlag

Mr Flag - you wouldn't be suggesting that the recent 'cross Tamar' debate has an element of wind would you????

hehe

Actually I wish I'd thought of that comment myself!

But no - this is just shameless commercialism.

MrFlag

Perhaps I could bring the following story to everyone's attention:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3056188.stm

And on the front page of BBCi news too. It's amazing how high profile all this is getting, as it all started here.

Remember, all publicity is good publicity.

Guys, Although I didn't think the article reflected our case very well - and the half hour I spent speaking to Jonathon seems to have been largely condemned to the cutting room floor - you can't argue that this article got attention.

My 'Celtic Devon' website, which was indirectly referred to in the story (but with no URL link) received well over 600 visits in the last 24 hours. Easily a record. Given that people must have gone from that story and done a 'Google' search on Celtic Devon in their hundreds (or thousands) is quite staggering.

Sadly, the story seems to have confused between the Devon Flag Campaign and that for recognition of Celtic Devon, and despite the fact that I stressed that we don't seem to have a problem with most Cornishfolk - only a small 'nationalist minority' (which Jon Duffy reflected back to me whilst we talked) the print seems to suggest otherwise.

Still, it has given publicity to both the Devon Flag and Devon's claim to Celtic heritage.

Sorry, I have just noticed that there was a direct URL link to my site, but nevertheless.

I have also received a raft of orders for bumper stickers!!!

How are your orders going Mr Flag?!
I thought they had sensationalised the whole thing too but that's great news about the bumper stickers. Any commercial companies planning on mass production?

Davyth

We haven't had the flood of extra visitors we'd hoped for from that story yet (only about 750 more than normal yesterday), but we'll know for sure when figures for today close.

Overall sales have slowed, but remain steady.

It'll be interesting to see how well the Devon windsocks go. They're certainly moving fast so far. It looks like we may sell the whole 100 before we even get the batch in.

Which is nice.

I spoke to the BBC online guy for good half hour aswell and he's not used much of what i said, but thats jounalists for you though eh. I think its great article and im certain it'll tweak a lot of peoples interest.

The decision to compare Devon and Cornwall to the Auld firm was stretching it a bit but as i said im sure it'll all serve to attract people.

I got my flag through the post the other day, very impressed! Thanks very much Charles

all i need now is a proper address to fly it from (still house hunting)

Have a nice weekend folks.