h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I have just been looking at Estren's flag designs, and reading his comments. I agree that the black needs to be prominent, which I think I have achieved with my "Celtic Cross" design. I do not agree that the red lion in the Devon Shield is "Saxon", as I believe it represents the British Crown. I have included the Devon Shield in my designs, as it is a well known Devon symbol (which most Devonians will recognise) and makes the flag less anonymous. Although Estren's Cross designs are good ones, it is my opinion that they are still too anonymous, i.e. they do not say "Devon" to me. I am at a loss to understand Estren's comment about the Celtic Cross being a Right-Wing symbol. It may be such in Germany (Estren's home country), but it certainly isn't in the UK.

I like Estren's "Pendragon" design, but I think it would be more appropriate as a "Pan Celtic" flag, and not specifically a Devon one.


Plymouth Exile

hiya,
Im not sure what you mean by anonymous? is St Georges or St Pirens cross anonymous? maybe its just that you know what they are already and theyre established. I liked your more celtic looking cross design (not aware of any right wing connection) but im also a fan of a more simple cross with or without the sheild (personally i like the sheild but no other flags seem to be like that do they?)
yeah so i'll be sure to be voting whenever that happens, but im fairly sure it wont count for much without a bit more media exposure, sorry to be a pessimist.

PS how do you feel about the new plmyouth argyle strip with its big old cornish flag right in the middle?

Dear Devonian,

By the term "anonymous", I mean that if most Devonians looked at the flag (with no shield), without being told that it was a Devon flag, they wouldn't have the faintest idea which county (if any) it represented. At least the Devon Shield has been around for a very long time and is instantly recognisable by almost all Devonians. It also introduces Devon's maritime heritage to the flag, and its loyalty to the Crown. Therefore by incorporating the Shield into the Flag, it becomes instantly recognisable as a Devon Flag.

As far as media exposure for the chosen Flag is concerned, perhaps the BBC would be prepared to give it some publicity on local television, seeing as how the whole thing started on their web site. Has anyone any ideas as far as Devon Flag production is concerned?

Regarding the Plymouth Argyle strip, with its Cornish Flag and Ginsters sponsorship, I think it would be more appropriate to get sponsorship from Ivor Dewdney.

Plymouth Exile

Congratulations to Estren for a 'different' design, as well as a couple that take us 'back to the future' (they look a lot like where 'Devonian' started).

Personally I don't know I like the yellow and red, but all credit for the idea.

As to how we could promote the 'flag' issue, I agree it would be disappointing to see voting limited to three men and a dog (no disrespect to the dog). I think we can do a few things to boost that

1 See if BBC Devon would extend their genorosity to Radio as well as the website. It might make a good talkback discussion on BBC Devon. TV would be good as well, but I do know that local BBC TV goes wider than the county boundaries. However PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE???

2 Once the 'competition' has started we could try dropping a few hints on other web-sites (eg Plymouth Argyle's, Devon County Council, h2G2 etc..) to boost publicity and hence participation

3 Try writing to the papers (Western Morning News etc...) to try to get a run - either as an article or as a minimum in the 'postbag'.

Hopefully this might also lead a few more people into the 'Celtic Devon' discussion group as well.

Dear Devonian,

In my previous response to your posting, I forgot to answer your point about other flags not having shields or such at the centre of them. This isn't strictly true. Although most national flags do not have heraldic devices on them, many flags for political or administrative subdivisions of countries do have them. If you look up the flags of the various States, which make up the USA, several have heraldic devices incorporated in them. Closer to home, the Flag of the Island of Alderney consists of St. George's Cross with a heraldic device at its centre, consisting of a disc with a lion (similar to the Devon lion) on the disc.

Plymouth Exile

The designs for the Devon flag are still coming in - I'll be adding yet another in just a few minutes. I agree with you that the vote would be unrepresentative (although still a bit of fun) and I wonder if trying to do one on Monday - as is the current plan - is not too soon as momentum seems to be growing and more designs are still being added.

As far as your other ideas go - BBC Radio Devon has already covered this subject. Almost all of Justin Leigh's phone-in programme, Devon's Call (one lunchtime a couple of weeks back)was spent talking about what elements should be included in a Devon flag.

You can always encourage further discussion, though, by calling the phone-in number (0845 301 1034) any weekday 1pm - 2.30pm

TV? Well that's a different matter.... I'll see what I can do.

Meanwhile keep waving the flag for Devon

Cheers

JG - one of the Devon Editors

Some great designs guys. Perhaps we will end up with too many?

My vote would not be to delay the vote - at least not for too long -but what do you guys think?

Perhaps when we have had our vote we may have a 'shortlist' of two or three (first second and third?) and can then seek a broader audience via TV, newspaper etc...

Pity I was unable to listen to the radio discussion.

I must say I am pleased to see that the discussion on the flag (and indeed on Celtic Devon) has been basically 100% positive - and by the sound of it so was the radio.

I guess picking a time to cut across to a poll is difficult if designs keep coming in, but I fear momentum might be lost if we keep deferring the vote.

In the spirit of compromise I would suggest that we launch the vote next Friday??

I think we need to keep it open for a while as email hits (judging by the responses posted) can be sporadic.

Its good to hear that its been on the radio and that people was phoning in.
Ive told all my mates about what were doing on this website an d they've all been really enthusiastic about it so maybe if we do get a bit of newspaper coverage (i reckon even on the letters page) even more people would be into it.
see ya folks
PS plymouth exile, thanks for explaining the sheild issue, i like it better now.

Typically - it has all gone quiet once the date has been deferred.

So - what is the plan???

Hopefully the competition will get some prominence on BBC Devon - web-site and radio???

Hi Kerswell

They call that the law of ... well you know I'm sure!

Anyhow I'm going to try and put together a voting page (actually I've already started it) and get it live by the end of the week.

We'll leave it up for a fortnight so that everyone gets a chance to elect a favourite.

I'll also let our colleagues on TV and Radio know and hopefully encourage even more interest.

So watch this space and, hopefully, I'll have the page finished on time.

regards

JG

Come on folks

I've put the voting page up and our colleagues at TV would really like to do something about the need for a Devon flag.

But it seems that nobody wants to talk about it in front of a camera - or is it just that nobody who wants a Devon flag actually comes from or lives in Devon?

If you're available for a chat and to put your case - please email us at [email protected] as soon as possible or you'll lose your possible 3 minutes of stardom.....

Sorry Big JG, I am in Lincolnshire, and won't be back in Devon until October. You could try E-Mailing Coref, who I believe lives at Noss Mayo (near Plymouth), or Kerswell who I think lives in Plymouth. I don't know where Devonian lives. I suspect that the flag designers aren't checking this site for postings, now that voting is underway, so they may not have seen your request. I hope you find someone.


Plymouth Exile

The vote seems to have generated some interest - I reckon about 215 votes cast so far.

Design # 6 seems to be the consistent leader (isn't that the one Devonian started this discussion with?), although a number of the designs seem popular.

So when the vote closes, (whenever that is, but I presume it will be soon) - what next??

Should we get some 'bumper stickers' made up? Some flags (minature) ??

Will BBC Devon represent the winner on their web site??

<SMILEY TYPE="elf"/>

OK so no-one is available for their 1 minute 45 seconds of fame on the telly but how about appearing on BBC Radio Devon??

If anyone has strong views about the need for a Devon flag (and I guess that's just about everyone on this site) please send an email to my colleague [email protected]

She wants to speak to anyone (either living in the county or expats) for a feature she's planning.

Hi All

This report went on BBC Radio Devon this morning.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/devon/realmedia/news/flag.ram

In it Michael Chequer (should it have been called a Chequer Flag report?) talks to the boss at South West Tourism.

Take a listen to what he has to say

Cool!!

If you go to the BBC Devon Radio web page (see BBC Devon home page) and click on the 'local news', you will see an article on the Devon Flag - and a radio piece from a Michael Chequer.

He has interviewed the Chief Exec for South West Tourism (and a couple of other guys)

Good work guys - great to see some media attention

I wish to inform you folks that I have just sent the following E-Mail to the Devon Editor:-

Dear Kevin,

I must say that I am disappointed by your response. There is a big
difference between fun with fairness, and fun with deceitfulness. In the
circumstances, I must therefore request that my two contributions, flags 1
and 3 be removed from the voting slip, as I have no wish to participate in
anything which is not completely above board. If you would care to view my
contributions to the Devolution message board, you will see that I am a
stickler when it comes to truth and honesty, values which appear to be
seriously in decline these days. Although you may regard the whole thing as
just a bit of fun, you will note that those who are participating in the
Celtic Devon and Devon Flag discussions in A Sense of Place are already
planning flag production of the winning design, on the basic assumption that
the vote has been fair and above board.

Bob Burns

The background to the above E-Mail, is that I pointed out to the Editor, some evidence leading to suspicions of gross voting irregularities in the flag vote. His reply was that it was only a bit of fun. I leave you all to make your own judgements.


Plymouth Exile

Further to my last post, I have received a reply from the Devon Editor. He has stated that the voting system is far from foolproof. Anyone who can disable the cookie used can submit multiple votes from the same PC, or they can use different PCs to vote many times (which is what I suspect has happened in this case). He said that the poll has been running long enough now, and will be closed today (12th September). I have sent the following reply.

Dear Kevin,

Thank you for your reply. I am afraid that your cookie did not work very
well, as on a couple of occasions when I logged on to check the vote, I was
presented with a fresh voting slip. If I had been dishonest, I could have
voted again. Perhaps you could mention the deficiencies of the voting
system when you close the poll and announce the "result???". I am sorry it
has worked out this way, but there always seems to be someone who refuses to
play by the rules. I feel ashamed that that person is a fellow Devonian.

What a pity that the poll had to end in this way.

Regards,

Bob


I would have been perfectly happy to accept any flag design, which had been fairly arrived at, but this sort of incident just leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

The person responsible for this knows who he/she is. I will say no more.


Plymouth Exile