h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

They have content. I don't remember h2g2 needing a plugin!

Mel

True.

I suppose in a way you have to consider what sort of site you're looking at.

Community sites, such as h2g2 and other forum based ones, don't really need plugin things.
Catalouge site, company showcases and such don't really, but used right are okay with them.
Fun sites, online mimicky games and such, need plugin content to make them interesting.

Then there are exceptions as well. A company I know are currently developing a whole area run using Flash/3D stuff to give full 3D interactive models of their products.

It's more a case of using the right tool for the job rather than saying 'sites need plugins or sites shouldn't need plugins.

Sites wishing to inform people of all types shouldn't use 'extras' that require plugins, or they should allow their site to function pefectly well when navigated without the plugins.

I know h2g2 uses Java, but I think I am right in saying you can still access it with Java turned off, just the interactive bits are unavailable!

Mel

what interactive bits in h2g2?

All sites technically need plugins: If I was still using a HTML 1.0 browser, h2g2 would not work. It needs HTML 4.0 (I expect) and CSS.

We have to resign ourselves to updating our client technology every now and then. The major browsers have started bundling the Flash player with the browser download, so maybe we should start treating it as a standard.

I wouldn't blame Flash for bad practices; I've seen far more websites that misuse JavaScript, DHTML and pop up windows, all of which are technology that has been in major browsers for a long time. Flash doesn't do anything more annoying than these technologies can.

And less annoying in a lot of occasions

Yes but they don't take as long to load as flash does!

Mel

This is where it's not Flash that's the problem, but the people using it.
A nice, simple, well designed Flash banner is usually around 2k, the size of a small image.
The difference is that a small image is static and a Flash banner isn't. It's down to the designers to use the available tools and technologies correctly so as not to pif us off, rather than to not use them.


( guess who's currently having to add Flash banners to his works' site? )

Ahh but for an all-flash site....

Mel *who happens to really like JBE's all-flash site, but that's by the by!*

One of the companies we have as a client, a rapidly expanding record label, has just had their site re-done. It's now pure Flash. No alternative whatsoever. It doesn't even stay within the browser window but creates an external movie file.
More than that it's sloooooow to load. And I'm sat here on a 2meg connection saying that!
A very bad example of a Flash "unabled" site.

Do you have a link so I can have a look or is it not live yet?

Mel

It's not quite live yet I'm afraid, I'll try and see if I can find a link though...

http://www.nightmaresonwax.com

I think it's actually gone live without me noticing

Nice site, shame there's no plain html alternative at the enter page.

Mel

Which is my main bug bear.

It's a lovely visual site, but not much use really.

Controversially, I'm quite a fan of web design as a medium of art. In which case, content isn't actually the critical ingredient. Many advertising-related sites (music, drinks, etc) seem to be grasping this concept, making very pretty and multimedia-intensive sites that don't actually provide any useful information, but do work as advertising devices, exposing the viewer to brands. The content that pulls visitors in are the pretty visuals, music and Flash games and stuff. I don't view this as a bad thing, but they *must* integrate properly with the rest of the web.

But that surely is a case of using Flash and such where it's actually doing some good?
I feel that the main case against Flash is when it's used needlessly?

I think all well done flash site look good, and can provide info, the problem comes when they don't offer an alternative!

Mel *who used to surf using her psion5!*

*Peregrin still surfs using Blazer on PalmOS, but unfortunately not to h2g2 due to the large number of images*

Ooh I wonder if Jim would give me the basis for a HTML POST form for logging in and adding an entry to my h2g2 diary?

Actually, I could just extract it from the HTML given to my browser *gets to work*