h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

for better than half a century, people have been trying to rewrite american History to emphasize seperation of church and state.
They ignore the fact that Documents like the Mayflower Compact and the Declaration of Independence make direct reference to God.
That the United States Senate from the Administration of George Washington on has employed a Christian Chaplain.
They also ignore the fact that when prayer was taken out of public schools a sense of moral absolutes also left, and this has resulted in things like the Columbine massacre where classmates and
teachers were gunned down.
America may have a constitutional prohibition against any one denomination being favored, but this is not a a wall of seperation
between God and American public institutions.
that wall was built by a judiciary and it can be torn down by a judiciary, Just as "Seperate but Equal" which was once the law in the United State was torn down and discarded.

'...when prayer was taken out of public schools a sense of moral absolutes also left, and this has resulted in things like the Columbine massacre...'

To put it mildly, Shagbark, that seems to me to be a highly questionable assumption! I've seen the Columbine massacre blamed on Hollywood and popular music before, but never on people not saying their prayers!

The problem with preaching 'moral absolutes' is that there's no definitive view of what's moral and what isn't. Most of us would probably agree that shooting your classmates is wrong; but on topics like homosexuality and abortion, my views and those of a Christian fundamentalist would be likely to be fiercely opposed.

"most of us would agree shooting your classmates was wrong"
unfortunately untill we can say ALL of us agree you will risk
more shootings. those who did the shootings found a way to rationalize their actions or they wouldn't have done them.
When Christian values were the norm in public schools such rationalizations were a lot harder to come by.

It seems to me that you are suggesting that non-religious people are not moral. Most people would agree that sexually abusing young children is wrong, but a lot of catholic priests seem to do it.

what I'm saying is that non-religious people consider themselves the standard for morality, so One could say shooting classmates who have belittled me is perfectly moral. At least the Priests knew that what they did was wrong. they just hoped the establishment would cover it up for them(which it did for many years).

Could you explain what you mean by "consider themselves as the standard for morality"?

It is a tenet of Secular Humanism that since man is the highest form of life on this planet, that he determines what is moral and what isn't. Generally this means the norm of behavior , but it isn't outside possibility for some shooter to deem himself the final authority.

As an atheist, I judge right and wrong and morality in terms of the effect my actions have on others.

I find this more moral than making decisions according to a religious doctrine. Christianity deems homosexuality a sin. But if two people both want to have gay sex, why should it be judged immoral?

I think that although religions do promote moral values, a lack of religion can lead to more rational moral values.

Oh, and as an afterthought, the troubles in Ireland see people using religious titles (Protestant, Catholic) to justify what is, in effect, an ongoing civil war. These Christians believe that to throw bricks at schoolchildren attending a school of a different denomination but the same religion!

i believe if you read history you will find that the "founding fathers" were tired of all of the wars fought in the name of religion and were determined to prevent the same in the usa, by separating church and state. they didn't object to religion. they objected to a government of religious ideals. this court's ruling did not object to god. it objected to the requirement of swearing allegience to god in a government funded organization. taking god out of schools didn't contribute to columbine. the excessive number of guns in our society and the ease with which they can be purchased did. we can still attend any church, synagog, temple or faith based gathering of our choice. we are free to contribute to any religion as we desire without fear of persecution. we can still pray for our leaders to find the inspiration they need to guide us. but they are not free to impose their religous ideals on us. thank god and the founding fathers.

A good point, well made.