h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

starbirth noted that <<...the article was ... partisan...>>

Don't you think that's a bit much, coming from you? I have never tried to hide my own judgement that the Palestinians have most of the right in these matters.

Your contributions, on the other hand, have always carried the *tone* of an impartial observer, although they have supported Israel consistently.

You and I are partisan. Matthew Paris is neutral by comparison, IMO.

Please clarify in what way(s) the article was "presumptuous" and "over-simplified". These sound like the accusations of someone who has been disagreed with....

Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"

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I agree that you are pro palistinian. Your agenda is not at all questioned. However I am not on either side. I would like to see peace. Show me any post where I have "cosistently supported Isael" The point I have been trying to get across is suicide bombings are wrong,they do not protect or save lifes. What they also do is give Israel the moral high ground in world opinion. Everyone of these bombings go out over the air waves. the blood,severed limbs dead bodies are inbeded in our minds. While much of what goes on in reverse we do not see. This is a pattern that will continue to repeat itself and it is not in the palistinians best intrest. These "tactics" they are using are not working. Cannot the palistinian leadership see this.

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And I am a flying pig! There seems little point in continuing after the above. I think I've made my feelings known, and introduced the points I consider most important in this discussion.

So long, and thanks for all the fish, as they say.

Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"

<>

And I am a flying pig! There seems little point in continuing after the above. I think I've made my feelings known, and introduced the points I consider most important in this discussion.

So long, and thanks for all the fish, as they say.

Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"

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First you accuse me of being a biased:
" Your contributions, on the other hand, have always carried the *tone* of an impartial observer, although they have supported Israel consistently"

Then you introduce the points you consider importent: These being from what I understand are - The palistinians are more in the right than the israelies.

I ask you for one post to back up your accusations that I have consistently supported israel and rather than back up your alligations you fly away.

It's a bird..... It's a plane....... No wait it's a never mind.

1) Starbirth, read your posts in the backlog. You have definitely spent more of your efforts on Palestinian atrocities than Israeli ones. You might not have meant to, but you did.

2) Pattern, don't go just yet. This is as in-depth and interesting a discussion as I have had in many a week.



Geoff

You mean there's some left?

I was reading the bbc news page and the conflict has been shifted to the world news page.

"
Israeli border police try to stop settlers rampaging through Hebron Settler funeral sparks Hebron clashes
A Palestinian girl is shot dead as Jewish settlers attack homes in the West Bank city of Hebron after the funeral of an Israeli soldier."

..... baack and bookmarking.


TD.

As if this thread needed any more life injected into it ...

attacking Iraq, yay or nay?

Gif

There has to be something to distract from corporate problems.

Yes it seems like America has a nice little war up the sleeve, to avoid too much attention on future problems, whichever they might be.


A curious way of damage control.


TD.

PC "World opinion on Israel is more or less under the control of the Jewish lobby in the USA. The Israelis would have to kill every living Palestinian before the Jews of the USA would turn against them. [And then it would be too late!]".

That is wrong in every respect and quite frankly I'd expect more from you. World opinion is a misnomer as the US and Europe have different views, not to mention dissenting views in both camps. The Jewish lobby in the US has certainly no more weight than the Muslim lobby (or Arab Oil lobby). What does the US administration value more, its trade/relationship with Saudi Arabia or its relationship with Israel? I don't know, but I doubt the answer's a given.

And various people have been saying the Palestinians have been losing the PR war. Well, if a single soul exists that believes that suicide bombings are justifiable, then clearly they haven't lost the PR war at all. I would be grateful for someone to point me to any pro Israeli European article.

So, a question to all of you who think that the Pal's suicide bombers are justified - if the suicide bombers are justified in their actions, surely the Israelis can't be hounded for a few civilian deaths as they target the bombers, right? Why should the Israelis avoid killing civilians when the Palestinians are targetting civilians? At least members of the Israeli Government expressed regret at the loss of civilian life in the recent rocket attack, and didn't sing and dance in the streets proclaiming a glorious afterlife of young virgins for the trigger men, or similar religious bile.

"Yes it seems like America has a nice little war up the sleeve, to avoid too much attention on future problems, whichever they might be."

I've seen almost the same thing said on US current affairs shows. It seem every knows about it but people still fall for it.

Re: possible Iraq war. Sadam has been making an effort to garner support in the middle east.

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Because if you use your opponents methods, you show that you are no better than him and therefor should not be shown any more respect than he whoose actions you condemn but still use.



TD.

"...then clearly they haven't lost the PR war at all..." - Inasmuch as Israel is :-
getting only light rebukes over its latest atrocities,

still able to get away with the "Self Defence" argument,

managing to keep its water deprivation activities out of the headlines,

I'd say the Palestinians have still got work to do on the PR front.


"...if the suicide bombers are justified in their actions, surely the Israelis can't be hounded for a few civilian deaths as they target the bombers, right? ..."

I've been having similar thoughts myself. Also, the Palestinians can't shout too loud about atrocities in Jenin when they're prepared to commit such atrocities themselves. I'll say it again; I think it would help their cause immensely if they could stop the bombings, because it would remove all doubts as to who is the aggressor and oppressor.

On the other hand, the Israelis could equally easily go for the moral high ground if they stopped acting so oppressively and let the Palestinians appear as the violent ones. I have said this before, I'll say it again: both sides are in the wrong. Both are using the justification 'look at what the other lot are doing; therefore we are justified in using any measures, no matter how brutal, to ensure our safety'.

Another question for you all - how do you see the current Middle-East crisis coming to an end? Can it drag on as it is indefinitely? If not, what do you think will happen?

Gif

I will probably end when support dries up. Neither side can perform these actions un adided for long. Israel is already cutting spending in other areas to fund what they're doing.

Additionally, the Palestinians have been responding to diplomatic efforts to end the bombings. They were reportedly very close to announcing a cessation before the apartment block got flattened last week. Maybe they'll pick that up again sooner rather than later.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=2347005&thesection=news&thesubsection=world

Israel promoted as a fellow country fighting terror, will America 'let' it end with anything less than Israeli victory?

(Correcting my error from untold posts ago - Matthew Parris was, of course, a Conservative M.P.)

Gif

I'm happy to report that bias seems to have dissapared from TV news here. It's now being called a "tit for tat conflict".