A Conversation for Where are the Seven Thousand?
Thou shall not...
aka Bel - A87832164 Started conversation Oct 4, 2010
Love this article. There is lot information in I had never heard of before. That website (zthe first one, I think) made me shudder.
It's people like them who make me steer clear of religion.
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Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor Posted Oct 4, 2010
People like them make me fast-forward past religious tv stations, and avoid church services that use powerpoint. I agree - that man is a menace, and ill-informed.
The ability of people to misunderstand about 80% of what they read still astounds me after all these years.
But thanks - I mostly wanted us to honour the actions of those who lived what they believed, and put themselves on the line. And I'm proud of those kids in Tennessee. The documentary about the Paper Clip Project is a cool film:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_Clips_Project
(Go down to 'film'.)
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aka Bel - A87832164 Posted Oct 4, 2010
Yes, it's great you brought this to the hootoo audience. I've read up on Irena Sendler. What a fascinating woman. And I agree with the sentiment in the paperclip project: we can make a difference.
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Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor Posted Oct 4, 2010
Yes, I had never heard of Irena Sendler until somebody sent me an email. What a remarkable woman.
Yep. We can make a difference if we choose.
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aka Bel - A87832164 Posted Oct 4, 2010
I think people often give up because they can't make a difference on a grand scale. But then only few people can do that. All of us can make a difference on a small scale. Your writing does. At least to me.
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jzzyprin93 Posted Oct 4, 2010
Nice article Dmitri. I agree with you and Bel I steer clear of churches other religious things. Because I believe that people have twisted religion into something that once was so beautiful into something that people are no longer sure of. I rather pray in private, where the only person that can judge me is me. Religion is to corrupt these days.
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Websailor Posted Oct 6, 2010
Thank you for a very thoughtful and interesting article Dmitri. I worked voluntarily for a wildlife charity for twenty years, and regarded everything I did as 'sowing seeds', often with no immediate result.
Children soak up information like sponges and what they learn in their early years stays with them, often 'on hold' till they are older. Which is why history is so important, and such people as you write about should be remembered and celebrated, and their reasons for doing what they did should also be learnt and remembered. Present day governments seem not to realise this.
I have mixed feelings about religion. Much is good but as jzzyprin93 says it has been twisted in to something almost beyond recognition, and often for evil purposes.
Thanks again for a lovely article.
Websailor
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Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor Posted Oct 6, 2010
Thanks for the comments - and full agreement here, not only about history, but also about people twisting religious beliefs. (How many times does the Bible say social justice is a requirement? At least 300...)
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Willem Posted Oct 10, 2010
Sigh ... I wonder whose posting has been moderated now?
In my case ... I don't go to any church, and my personal religion is simply belief in Goodness: that we should do - and appreciate - good for the brief time we are in this world. And Love is the most important attitude. Love to one's self, love to others, and also love to all living things.
With that, of course,goes things like consideration and responsibility. There really is a problem with good people doing bad things because they didn't think things through thoroughly, because they're misguided.
This is why I say people should *think* more - and better. You're right, Dmitri, the next big evil is not going to come in a nice Nazi costume decorated with swastikas so everybody will know what it's about. Things are getting more subtle - incredibly subtle. The kids of today are having to face a thousand different flavours of brain-washing and indoctrination. They face a future of global mass insanity where it is almost impossible to tell the good guys from the bad guys. Worse - it may seem that there *aren't* any good guys any more. Levels of cynicism are rising. Every hero is just one bribe away from a fall. People who *care* become afflicted with moral exhaustion as they fight on a million different fronts and nothing seems to make a smidgen of a difference.
We are facing a future of staggering challenges. But as you say, Dmitri - there are those 7 000 *somewhere* out there. A few of them are *here* - nice to know you folks!
Bel - one of my own convictions is that perhaps we have to start believing that we can actually make those 'differences on a grand scale'. I think we've been taught for too long that we are, individually, weak and ineffective. OK so I am mad, but I am going to try and make a *big* difference. I am working towards it. If *I* can make a big difference, I'd have proven my point: I am a poor, mentally ill, socially isolated man living in a third-world country. If *I* can make a big difference then by heck, what are other people's excuses?
Of course I will have to make that difference first before I can prove my point ...
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Websailor Posted Oct 10, 2010
I think you are already proving your point Willem, just by your writing! You are making those of us reading, think more about things. Yes, perhaps in a sense you are 'preaching to the converted' but we don't know who, outside of h2g2 is reading, and your posts are very interesting.
I firmly believe one person can make a big difference. Most movements for change are started by one or two people who refuse to be bullied, put down or trodden on.
Now we have a change of government here I see progress already. At the moment it is mostly in the form of talk, but people are beginning to speak out again about things that are unfair or just plain wrong with less fear of reprisals. I believe, hope, that honesty may be on the way back, commonsense too, which has buried for far too long.
By the way, stop putting yourself down. You are intelligent and you have a lot of commonsense (and the two don't always go together in one person!). You are educated, articulate and talented and whatever your problems and circumstances you are rising above them - an example to us all.
Websailor
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Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor Posted Oct 10, 2010
Wow. Thanks for those comments, folks. Bel will tell you that I hesitated about this essay, and asked her to read it first. I was rather glad I'd gone ahead when I got feedback from my dad.
You see, he hits the forward button a bit, and the day this appeared, he sent me a bogus email that's circulating, claiming that they don't teach the Holocaust in the UK. I wrote back to assure him that this was not true (with link to my favourite de-bunker, Ms Mikkelson of snopes.com, I have to write that lady a thank-you note one of these days). Then I linked to this essay, saying, 'See? They know about these things, or I wouldn't be able to tell this.' My dad phoned me to say he enjoyed the essay.
Yep. Making a difference. I don't think the 7000 always know what difference they make. But they do it. Willem, you do it when you say that the fact that you have to play the hand you're dealt (and I know what you mean) isn't going to stop you.
To quote a different spiritual source from the one in this essay - the redoubtable and delightful Carlos Castaneda - you just practice 'impeccability'. Do what's in front of you.
A lady in Richmond, Surrey, did this for me once. She knew I was going to show up at her church that morning, because she'd met me the week before. So she invited me to lunch at her place. She didn't know I'd be arriving with three young people in tow, having been appointed tour guide for the day by some Lutheran nuns of my acquaintance. I started to decline with regrets.
'Oh, no!' she exclaimed. 'I KNEW there was a reason I thawed out enough chicken to feed an army.'
Now, call that what the lady in Richmond called it, 'The Lord planned it,' or call it, New-Age style, 'power did it', or whatever, but as Hamlet said, 'The readiness is all.' As a result, 35 years later, I still remember that day I had, and that lady's life story, which she told us while the chicken was in the oven.
As Zoroaster said, light the fire in the dark place.
Paul Robeson got a lot of guff from the Red-baiters, but he sang this, loud and clear:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkZsChKNULk&p=8C86362EDE34026A&playnext=1&index=44
Elijah spent most of his time on earth hiding from the authorities. (Check out his story, and check out the exciting spy stuff his student Elisha got up to. Elisha was the original Man Who Stared at Goats.)
Elijah definitely wasn't welcome in church. He probably smelled a bit, and the only people he saw on a daily basis for several years were a widow and her son. She was his landlady, and he paid his rent by feeding her family using means that would upset an economist.
I refuse to get hung up in the social. No, I can't deal with those people, either. Goodness is not a social experience, most of the time. They may be doing what TH White called 'Praying to the vision behind its back.' Forget them. Listen to the voice inside.
The guys with the outfits aren't the real cowboys...
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Websailor Posted Oct 10, 2010
Thanks for the Paul Robeson link. Haven't heard his voice in years so I had a wallow. The one you picked says it all.
Websailor
Key: Complain about this post
Thou shall not...
- 1: aka Bel - A87832164 (Oct 4, 2010)
- 2: Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor (Oct 4, 2010)
- 3: aka Bel - A87832164 (Oct 4, 2010)
- 4: Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor (Oct 4, 2010)
- 5: aka Bel - A87832164 (Oct 4, 2010)
- 6: Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor (Oct 4, 2010)
- 7: jzzyprin93 (Oct 4, 2010)
- 8: Websailor (Oct 6, 2010)
- 9: Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor (Oct 6, 2010)
- 10: jzzyprin93 (Oct 6, 2010)
- 11: Willem (Oct 10, 2010)
- 12: Websailor (Oct 10, 2010)
- 13: Websailor (Oct 10, 2010)
- 14: Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor (Oct 10, 2010)
- 15: Websailor (Oct 10, 2010)
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