A Conversation for The Phantom Menace
Excrement!
Doug Dastardly Started conversation May 19, 1999
Despite reviews as bad as The New Yorker's Anthony Lane, who likened "The Phantom Menace" to excrement, there's a lot of feedback from hardcore fans (and they wouldn't be biased would they?)that it's "Excellent", "...as good as Darth Vader is bad" etc. I guess no matter how bad it is, it's still Star Wars...
Excrement!
Fatz 30061 Posted May 19, 1999
I guess 22 years of nostalga have dulled the memory of Film reviewers.
When Star Wars was released in 1977 it was received with universal apathy from all and sundry. Now in 1999, these same reviewers are giving The Phantom Menace the same treatment.
Star Wars was a great film on so many levels. But best of all it was pure escapism. The FX were ground breaking. The music stirring.
But that doesn't mean that it was technically a great film.
The acting was at best enthusiastic, the dialogue so - so.
The plot simplistic, with more holes than swiss cheese.
Does this sound familiar ??
Who can forget OB1's claim that only 'Imperial Stormtroopers are that precise ( with their weapons )', only to be proved completely wrong by the rest of the film.
But no-one cared. It was great, it was Star Wars.
One fan, on leaving the film said that it was easy to critise.
And asked how many film critics had actually made a film of their own.
The Phantom Menace may not be the greatest film of all time.
But neither was Star Wars.
It was just 2 hours of simple cimema magic.
Excrement!
Doug Dastardly Posted May 19, 1999
I'd just like to say that I too am a big fan of the Star Wars films. The biggest problem is going to be expectation... People are going to expect something as(more) groundbreaking as the original film, and with all the hype they will more than likely be disapointed. Perhaps the poor review will actually *help*. Die hard fans of course won't care, and will take it for exactly as it's meant to be taken, as you say, a couple of hours of pure fantasy and escapism. I guess for a lot of people it's going to be like seeing an old friend again...
Excrement!
Jim Lynn Posted May 19, 1999
Strangely, I think it'll be die-hard fans who might react badly to it. After all, they've all grown up since the first three, but Lucas is still doing the same movies, so they'll possibly feel that the new movie is too much a children's movie, ignoring the fact that it's they who have changed.
Excrement!
Doug Dastardly Posted May 19, 1999
Oh, I don't know. I know plenty of "adults" who enjoyed the original trilogy, and they were all grown up. I guess it's just expectations. As long as it's better than the "droids" cartoon .
Excrement!
Leeloo Posted May 19, 1999
Well I'm off to New York next weekend to see it and I can't see myself being too disappointed. The science fiction genre relies more than any other upon the suspension disbelief. As far as the Star Wars universe is concerned - the fans hold the place in their hearts. They would only have a real problem with the new films if they deviated from the formula too much. As long as Phantom remains true to the spirit and idealism of the original films it will be great - no matter how many ten year old boys fly space ships!
Excrement! NOT! (SPOILER-FREE)
BlackWind Posted May 19, 1999
Well, I saw it last night. Words like AWESOME come to mind.
I did see a couple of points that give rise to some legitimate criticisms. BUT, nothing to justify those idiot critics' reviews of it!
Either way, see it.
Excrement! NOT! (SPOILER-FREE)
Doug Dastardly Posted May 19, 1999
Did you feel it was the "Star Wars" you knew? I'm sure that some reviews were a little extreme. Will you be going to see it again?
Excrement! NOT! (SPOILER-FREE)
Velocat Posted May 19, 1999
12:01 ...3rd row. packed theatre. chanting "Star Wars Rules". doing the wave. light sabre duels. crazed audicence. .... and then the film..
yes i loved it. i took it for what it was.. a starwars movie.. which is rather cheezy in some points.. has flaws.. (just as the others did) but is totally fun and engaging. i got myself excited about it, and still loved it. and yes, it felt like a piece of the series.
so tired today at work.. but happy.
Excrement! NOT! (SPOILER-FREE)
Doug Dastardly Posted May 19, 1999
Hehe sounds like you had fun. Something tells me you wouldn't get the same kind of audience excitement in a british cinema! Sounds good though, so *when* are you going to see it again?
2+3 (a spoiler I guess but you'll probably have forgotten by then)
The Great Gonzo Posted May 19, 1999
In our local in (Very Old) York when Star Wars was re-released Darth was booed and there was cheering when the death star was destroyed. No dressing up though (just not British).
I hear there was just too much packed in so there was no character growth. Perhaps New Hope should have been episode 5.
Of course as Empire was my favourite I can't wait for 2 (Turn to the dark side!) and 3 (Jedi massacres and Anakin and Obi have a bust up leading to the character building suit)
2+3 (a spoiler I guess but you'll probably have forgotten by then)
Doug Dastardly Posted May 19, 1999
A friend of mine cried when Darth Vader died (that's not a spoiler is it!) because he knew there wouldn't be another Star Wars film... well, he didn't know about films 1-3!
spoilers schmoilers
Zach Garland Posted May 20, 1999
No need to worry about spoilers for Star Wars 4,5, and 6. If someone hasn't seen Return of the Jedi by now, odds are they're not going to.
This whole "spoiler" thing is laughable to me. We all know how this story ENDS. We've already SEEN the end of it. How can the story be MORE spoiled than it already is?
One doesn't see Star Wars trying to figure out IF the heroes will win out over evil. We know eventually they will. It's a melodrama. It's inevitable that good will triumph over evil. One watches Star Wars movies to be immersed in a galaxy far far away.
Further, we know from A New Hope precisely how bad evil gets before things start to turn around. So we know how dark and disturbing parts two and three will be. People who worry about others spoiling episode one by telling them how it goes really amuse me.
I haven't seen Phantom Menace yet. I'm planning on waiting several days to a few weeks until the crowds die down. However, people could start reciting the dialogue from memory within earshot of me and it can't ruin my appreciation for the film.
May the schwartz be with you!
spoilers schmoilers
beetle, return of Posted May 20, 1999
Episode One did leave much for charecter development. It should have been an hour longer to fit in the people. The effects are amazing, probably the best interaction between live and cgi. But, and this is a big but, this is the "first movie" and should set the scene and people. It is like reading a book from the middle, straight into the action. I wil watch the movie again, but I hope they develop the people in favor of another battlefield scene in the second movie. I don't think anyone would mind another hour of story added. If only it wern't so expensive to produce.
character development?
Zach Garland Posted May 20, 1999
We are talking about the Star Wars series, right? Look at the templates here...
Luke Skywalker: reluctant farmer and starry-eyed dreamer turned saviour of the universe.
Han Solo: A walking M&M - scoundrel with a boorish exterior who deep down has a soft spot for the ladies and a heart of gold.
Ben Kenobi: Misunderstood old reclusive hermit who harbors a secret past.
Princess Leia: Fearless born leader dedicated to her people as a mother is to her child.
C3P0 and R2D2: Comic relief and occasional saviours of the moment.
Chewbacca: Large walking carpet who is actually smarter than the average bear.
Don't get me wrong. I love Star Wars, but let's be real. It's a reprisal of countless melodramas and mythic tales. Lucas found all the necessary elements and put them together in a unique way. He used history, art, mythological studies, and social sciences the way a child would use a box of dominoes or lego bricks. He pulled out those shapes which worked best for him and fit them together in a way that happens to please a lot of people aesthetically.
Deep interactive characterization? Not one of his strong suits. His Star Wars saga is very wide in scope. He has a lot of material to cover in too brief a time. Not even several two hour periods can cover everything he really wants to say.
In the end, we get a watered down version of what is on his mind. The characters are place-markers. Each part is a symbol or archetype for a concept or idea.
They are not supposed to be fleshed out and detailed, which is perhaps part of why so many are drawn to Star Wars. Lucas gives us just enough to fire our own imaginations. He doesn't go too much into detail, and leaves much open for interpretation and hypothesizing. So others can come along and fill in the gaps with their own ideas and concepts.
If one is looking for intricate character development and layers upon layers of introspection, you'd have better luck reading a Stephen King novel.
character development?
Doug Dastardly Posted May 20, 1999
Of course, where Lucas does succeed is developing worlds... alien races, technology which all have their own character. The Star Wars movies are even driven, a roller coaster ride of action and special effects... and they're pure escapism.
spoilers schmoilers
Doug Dastardly Posted May 20, 1999
Well, someone *might* have realised A New Hope was episode 4, and just been waiting for 1 to 3 before watching the rest! .
spoilers schmoilers
Zach Garland Posted May 20, 1999
Uh-huh, and I've never seen an Elvis Presley movie because I'm sure the King will return from the stars someday to make that sequel for Love Me Tender.
spoilers schmoilers
Jim the Wonder Llama (back from yonder) Posted May 20, 1999
You mean he won't? Goddammit, pass me the video recorder, it's going to be a long night, the King followed by the King of films
spoilers schmoilers
Doug Dastardly Posted May 20, 1999
Well, you never know. With state of the art special effects, it's only a matter of time before they bring back dead celebs... although Elvis isn't dead is he?
I heard some of the hype about the new Star Wars movie that it brings actor/computer generate character interaction to a new level... wonder if it's any better than the Han Solo / Jabba scene in the Special edition Star Wars... (Stepping on his tail.. *shakes head*).
Key: Complain about this post
Excrement!
- 1: Doug Dastardly (May 19, 1999)
- 2: Fatz 30061 (May 19, 1999)
- 3: Doug Dastardly (May 19, 1999)
- 4: Jim Lynn (May 19, 1999)
- 5: Doug Dastardly (May 19, 1999)
- 6: Leeloo (May 19, 1999)
- 7: BlackWind (May 19, 1999)
- 8: Doug Dastardly (May 19, 1999)
- 9: Velocat (May 19, 1999)
- 10: Doug Dastardly (May 19, 1999)
- 11: The Great Gonzo (May 19, 1999)
- 12: Doug Dastardly (May 19, 1999)
- 13: Zach Garland (May 20, 1999)
- 14: beetle, return of (May 20, 1999)
- 15: Zach Garland (May 20, 1999)
- 16: Doug Dastardly (May 20, 1999)
- 17: Doug Dastardly (May 20, 1999)
- 18: Zach Garland (May 20, 1999)
- 19: Jim the Wonder Llama (back from yonder) (May 20, 1999)
- 20: Doug Dastardly (May 20, 1999)
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