h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A659847

The lack of an entry on Sheffield seemed like a glaring ommission from the guide, so I wrote one myself! I could potentially be accused of an overuse of footnotes, I admit. And I'm not a 'local' to Sheffield as such, so the entry is by no means exhaustive. Still, tell me what you think, and I'll make any necessary changes.

Madmaz

* in a pathetically obvious attempt to get this conversation to the top of PR so someone might notice it and make *some* comment.*

Preferably people who don't know the area at all- does it make sense?

And people who know the area very well- have I missed anything?

And other people who just want to make comments.

Madmaz (a soft southern shandy drinker).

Hey Madmaz *waves

You're sounding all plaintive and since you've been nice enough to link to one of my articles it's only polite I come and offer an opinion.
First, yes it makes sense, mostly sounding pretty good.
I don't know Sheffield very well from recent years so I'm not that well placed to comment on the content. You might want to add a mention for the supertram somewhere. It was one of the first systems in England and I think they're proud of it - you need to get a Sheffield resident over here to comment. I'll see if I can find some for you.
I always thought Sheffield was particularly well known for doing things with the steel (eg making knives and other cutlery) rather than just making the steel. But then I grew up in Scunthorpe which was a steel town through and through so I'm probably biased.
You've set yourself up to be criticised for footnotes so I'll do it I think you have too many footnotes that don't add anything.

There you go. Hope it helps
MC

Yep thanks. You're absolutely right about the footnotes. And I actually intended to write about the tram, but I forgot. So thanks for that too. I will sort that out... momentarily. When say I'm not a Sheffield local though, don't get me wrong, I do live there now, so I'm a, er, resident. I'm just not from there originally, as such.

You're probably right about the steel too. I have absolutely no idea about such things. I'll change it from 'steelmaking' to, um, something else to do with steel. I think they make steel there too, though, judging by the websites I've seen. I'll think about that one, and maybe do some more research on the steel side.

A Sheffield local born and bred *would* be helpful though, if you can find one. I have a friend here at uni from Scunthorpe. Not that it's particularly relevant to anything.

Madmaz

I took out about three of the footnotes. Don't know if that's enough. I kind of liked the one about Dale Winton, so I left that one in, although I don't think it really adds a lot to the piece. I'll see what other people say about it. I've also added a new section on 'transport' which talks about the supertram and stuff. Checked about the steel and you're absolutely right. Sheffield does make steel, but it's perhaps better know for the stuff it makes with it. So that's amended.

Anything else? Don't all rush at once.

Madmaz

You could add something about Sheffield sport:

Sheffield FC (the oldest football club in the world, no less)
Sheffield United (Hooray! )
Sheffield Wednesday (Booooo )
Sheffield Steelers (Ice Hockey)
Sheffield Sharks (Basketball - I think)

Don Valley stadium is an important national athletics venue; Pond's Forge is equally important for swimming.

Er... I'm sure there are probably one or more rugby teams in Sheffield as well, but that's not really my subject.

Hope that's useful

Loved it. Learned a lot.

Great writing-style. This is something I miss on the kilometric earnest entries of these days.

Thanks for this entry,

HELL

Thanks Hell, thanks a lot . Thanks Danny too. I really should add something on sport, shouldn't I? I mention Don Valley at one point, but that's pretty much it. I'll try and accommodate your highly unbiased and objective views on sport in Sheffield, OK? This will have to be done after the weekend though, because I've got a lot on this weekend...

Thanks again

Madmaz

Hi Madmaz!

An interesting entry. I have a couple of comments. Ithink it would be useful to mention the football clubs.

You might also want to mention the local radio Radio Hallam.

The bit about the Fully Monty seemed to sit a little uneasily in the Steelmaking section. I can see why you put it there though. Maybe if you put it as a subheading 'The Fully Monty'?

And there's a typo in the 'Shopping' heading - excels has only one 'l'.

Er, well only live in Sheffield when studying so only really know the student areas and where I work which is near Meadowhall and Sheffield Airport. I'll have a think Madmaz for anything else.

Zarquon,
Was 'The Fully Monty' a typo? You meant 'The Full Monty', right? I can't believe I didn't notice 'excells'. Thanks for pointing that out. The football teams thing is already rectified, I hope. Not in any great detail though, but I didn't want to make the entry *too* long...

I'm not really sure about the Radio Hallam suggestion though, I mean, it's not really famous outside Sheffield, is it? (It might be, and I just haven't noticed- it wouldn't surprise me at all.) I have to confess I don't listen to the radio, ever since somebody sat on the aerial. Sorry.

Madmaz

Its looking OK, but I can tell you're not a local.

Firstly the steel section needs serious beefing up. Steel is the very reason Sheffield exists. In the 17th century the place was a village with about 4 people and a goat. It just happened that there was plenty of coal, water and iron ore in the area. Hence once steel making started it was an obvious choice for the works to be.

Sheffield was not and has never really been a centre for the lumpen conversion of ores into iron, its specialty has always been the conversion of iron into specialist steels. Much more profitable. I suggest you re-read the entry on Irreverent History of Steel Making that you linked to.

The City is still a world centre for specialist steel fabrication. For example when Saddam Hussein wanted a company to build his supergun, the only place in the world that could make and mill steel to that level of precision was Sheffield. The company (Forge Masters)in fact had to invent a whole new fabrication process to do it!

The other mainstay of the City was the cutlery industry. At a guess I would say that every knife fork and spoon in the British Empire before the last war had *Made in Sheffield* stamped on it. The city still makes some of the best cutlery in the world for those with the money to pay for it. The importance of the industry can be seen in the imposing size and grandeur of Cutler's Hall - that great big building on Church Street.

An area that you've missed entirely is the hills! Have you ever seen anywhere else with such steep residential streets? Try walking down Blake Street in Walkley when there is a bit of a frost on the ground! If you fancy a stroll, then when you get to the bottom, turn right and walk up Upperthorpe then cross the road and start up Springvale Road and turn into Bates Street. The whole walk is no more than half a mile or so, but you'll end up with altitude sickness

Another change I would like to see is losing the piece on the Full Monty entirely. It was a minor film which for some reason became popular in the US. Most of the locals, myself included, found it deeply offensive as it portrays Sheffield as a dump full of workshy layabouts.

And a final final final point. You've got Sheffield United and Sheffield Wednesday written the wrong way around

Gosh, that does look a bit long when posted. Sorry

Well spotted, GreyDesk! I thought I'd made it perfectly clear which way round they should go in my post above

Of course in an ideal world the entry should read, "There are two rival football teams in the city, Sheffield United and the Piggies..."

I don't see why not. As long as the entry doesn't get a sub-editor who knows anything about football

A mention on Sheffield music perhaps?
- Human League
- Heaven 17
- Pulp
- Cabaret Voltaire
- Def Leppard
and most of Faithless
...all from Sheffield

Um, right, I'll reply to everything generally rather than specific postings, if that's OK. I don't have long, so I will come back to this later, but for now...

>'The Steel Section needs beefing up'- I'm not convinced that this article is the right place to go into great detail on the steel industry in Sheffield. I appreciate its importance, but possibly a separate entry on 'Sheffield Steel' is called for, and I'm not the person to write it. If the small bit about steel that I have put in is factually inaccurate, then I will change it when I have some time this weekend, but I don't want the steel section to take over the article. This is meant to serve more as a general introduction to the city.

You may well be right about the need to mention some bands from Sheffield. It would slot in nicely just before the bit on football. I'll sort that out. An entry on Sheffield wouldn't be complete without a mention for the Human League!

The hills: I know, I know, the seven hills of Sheffield. And I live at the top of a very big one. Perhaps a mention is called for in the 'down side' section? And yes, I have been in places where the main shopping streets are steeper.

More later on. I have a lecture to go to.

Madmaz

I see your point about not wanting steel to take over the article. But you need to make the point that steel is what defines Sheffield and makes it what it is. What you have written so far is actually factually incorrect. Sheffield has been THE world leader in specialist steel making and steel fabrication since, well since steel was invented! True it does not employ the same numbers of people as it used to, but that's because most industrial processes have been automated these days.

I'm not convinced you need a Full Monty entry, it really was a minor American film which contributed nothing to the city of Sheffield. If you do want to keep it in, please would you move it to the "Art Culture & Sport" section. This may sound strange to you, but I for one find its inclusion in the "Steel" section offensive.

Excellent idea for an Entry! Having written one on Bradford myself, I know what a tough task it can be to try to summarise a city!

Personally, I don't see a problem with mentioning 'The Full Monty', but I'd agree that it shouldn't be in the 'steel' section. To conform to Edited Guide style, the title should be written in italics and without quote marks. For the same reason, the Entry title should probably be changed to 'Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK'.

A few outside links might help. You can find links to the official Sheffield United and Sheffield Wednesday sites here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A249879 - and to band sites, including some of the Sheffield ones mentioned earlier in this thread, here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A242245 .

Good luck!