h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Oh, I could belive a military vessel being used for oil exploration... but an SSBN... No! never! They have one role in life - to disappear into the ocean and never be seen or heard of until they launch their missiles or return to port. You'd never use one on an oil exploration mission where it's going to spend time on the surface with members of its crew stood around outside the ship, chipping at a glacier to pick up a giant ice cube...
The soviets had a whole fleet of icebreakers specially designed for that type of work. (If you really needed to use a sub, you'd use an SSN - without the missiles onboard).

What the whole episode was missing was a telephone call to a navy base somewhere asking if they could borrow a 'consultant' to look over the script and sets...

I'm starting to find the whole thing of what the production team probably call 'homages' quite tiresome. The iceblock was from The Thing and most of the runny-about bits were from Alien. There comes a point when it isn't an homage, it's just plagiarism to cover up a lack of original ideas. It's lazy writing, which has been a big problem with the whole of this series. Against my expectations, I've found myself liking Matt Smith. Sometimes he really does look like a thousand year old alien, and I'd like to see him given some decent scripts, rather than banal scripts with the odd touch of magic now and then.

"a lack of original ideas"

You say that as if there's any such thing as original ideas. It's not as if either The Thing nor Alien were actually original based on the criteria you're using (The Thing is a remake of an earlier film, and the whole 'frozen aliens' thing wasn't new even when the original was made, and Alien is basically a haunted house story but in space, the only 'original' bits were the use of splatter effects)

And Whisky, if you experience fiction expecting it to conform to reality, you're doing it wrong.

"based on the criteria you're using"

What criteria was I using?

were I using

>>>And Whisky, if you experience fiction expecting it to conform to reality, you're doing it wrong.

Ok, look at it another way - if you were to watch a film called the 'Hunchback of Notre Dame' and you were told it was set in Paris, with everyone speaking in French accents and referring to French culture, then you noticed that all the exterior shots of the film were filmed outside St. Pauls Cathedral in London, with the London Eye and Tower Bridge in the background, you'd probably be slightly miffed...

Ok, it's fiction, but that doesn't give the writers carte blanche to ignore reality if they're writing about something that exists in our universe, pretending that it is part of our universe.

1967's 'The Ice Warriors' 'base under siege meets ice warrior frozen in the ice' plot predates the most popular film version of 'The Thing' (though not the 1951 film), but the episode's young target audience are too young to have seen that, or the recent John Carpenter remake and sequel.

The question is, was I entertained? Did I find it a tense story with characters I actually cared about for once? The answer is yes.

I love picking holes in plot holes as much as anyone else, but at the end of the day it was everything I'd hoped it would be, and I for one am glad that the Ice Warriors no longer have lego hands!

<BB<

"pretending that it is part of our universe."

Where does Doctor Who pretend it is part of our universe? Since the late sixties it's been working on a parallel very-near-future basis.

"What criteria was I using?"

That the idea is original to the story.

Using the claustrophobic enclosure of a submarine was a good idea for a storyline, and it was encouraging to see highly respected actors involved in this episode.

I found using a plot device like making the Tardis disappear so the crew couldn't simply leg it off the submarine very clumsy. Locating the Tardis with such ease towards the end of the storyline was also way too convenient.

The way an audience accepts the plot of any story is perhaps that it shouldn't be too easily contradicted by reality, or that the suspension of disbelief shouldn't be stretched too far. Considering what is now known about Mars, maybe tapping into old school sci-fi plots centered around Martian ice warriors stretched the plot beyond credibility, certainly beyond what would be expected from professional script writers.

Again a reminder is needed about the FICTION part of Science Fiction.

The Ice Warriors are an established part of Who canon, the canon (on account of the fiction) is not bound by real world changes (after all, in Judge Dredd there are still 'Sovs') and should not have to change along with them.

It's all about immersion, really, and different people have different levels of what they consider immersion breaking. Most of the current Who fans are not up to speed on old Who, myself included. Somehow the writers have got to manage to please both audiences. Introducing a Old Who enemy is going to affect the old/new viewers differently.

That being said, The Ice Warriors I was fine with, the TARDIS conveniently disappearing and reappearing less so.

It was OK. I haven't figured out what is missing for me. I love Matt Smith's Doctor, and I like Clara a lot. But the stories just aren't working for me yet.

What I should have said then is 'The way an audience accepts the plot of any GOOD story....' which would also include any good sci-fi story.

There is such a thing as the internal logic of a story and part of this includes its credibility, or not pushing the audience's suspension of disbelief too far, whether the story is feasible in the real world or not. The magic of a story is that the reader or viewer momentarily 'pretends' it is part of his/her real world, so including elements that too easily contradicts their understanding of their world is not good writing.

That's a very subjective view of what makes a good story.

The internal logic of sci-fi and fantasy does not and should not have to adhere to real world credibility, and I don't 'pretend' that sci-fi and fantasy stories are any part of any universe I inhabit.

No, unless they choose to inhabit a modern world. Doctor Who treads a fine line - it takes bits of the modern world it likes and ignores other bits. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

I think that's why Doctor Who (as I mentioned before) has been operating on a parallel near-future basis for all 'modern' stories since the late 60s.

I do think the get out clause of saying stuff doesn't have to make sense because it's in an 'alternative reality' is a bit of a lame excuse to be honest...

I remember reading a book about the creation of the original Star Trek series, and one of the things that Gene Roddenberry was very strict about was not using the excuse that "it's science fiction" - his idea was that if the characters acted in any way that wasn't coherent with how their real life equivalents then the writing was wrong! (I.e.: anything Captain Kirk did had to be consistent with the actions of a modern day military commander in a similar situation)... Anything an alien race did had to have some kind of logic behind it - they couldn't simply be "evil".

Not saying that they were always successful on ST, in fact they ignored this idea quite frequently, but it's a good starting point for 'good' sci-fi.

If you're going to put an alien on a Soviet Submarine and then stuff the episode with references to OUR universe then at least come up with a reasonable reason for getting that alien on the submarine that works in OUR universe...

If you're going to build a soviet submarine set than at least build something that vaguely resembles a submarine... The number of people in this thread alone who have mentioned the 'spaciousness' of the sub is a fairly good pointer that they didn't get it right...
(if they'd really wanted accuracy - there are a number of actual soviet era submarines open to the public around the world - alternatively there's a perfectly good French boomer sat in Cherbourg which is now a public museum and would have needed minor cosmetic work on it to make the interior look like a 'generic' Russian boat.)

I usually follow these hole-pickings with interest as I never notice stuff which doesn't conform to Old-Who or some point of specialised knowledge.

I would agree that in general it should follow the reality of Earth, so the example of setting something in Paris with a backdrop of the London Eye or Big Ben would be wrong as they are iconic images. A Russian submarine, however, isn't iconic, I would imagine a relatively small number of people are acquainted with the look of one or the purpose it would have been used for. I didn't notice it was particularly spacious, having no knowledge of submarines. (Incidentally, Whisky, out of the seven people who have commented since the episode aired, only two made that comment - you and Giford).

I enjoyed this episode more than the last two, it had some good tense moments and some lovely humour (I also loved the bit where the scientist wanted to know if Ultravox split up ). I thought getting rid of the Tardis was a good move as it upped the tension level, but I didn't think how they got it back was particularly important to the story - I assumed the line about it being at the South Pole was just a throwaway line for comedic effect.

Next week's episode looks excellent so I hope it lives up to my expectations.

Deb

I had a bit of a problem with the scientist being into western music. I don't know exactly what it was like back then, but I would imagine that even someone with privileged access like a top boffin probably wouldn't be permitted to pursue an interest that takes them straight through the Iron Curtain. It was amusingly done, but it stretched my credibility.
The problem of getting from the North Pole to the South also occurred to me. It's a massive project to send an expedition to either pole, and AFAIK the Doctor and Clara both have no resources whatsoever. It's not like it's an insurmountable problem though: I suppose the Doctor would just have to call in a favour or two.

Having the Tardis drop through a crack following an Earthquake like in "the Impossible planet" was a smart way to 'trap' the time lord in a situation he can't easily escape.

Having the 'danger circuit'(or whatever the excuse given was) reset and relocate the Tardis around the globe to avoid peril was a bit clumsy.

Have the door sealed so the wossname lizard can't escape in it or something, render it inoperable, but to just vanish it. Sloppy.

Other than that I quiet enjoyed the episode. It was better than last week's at any rate.

I thought it was typically quirky. A bit odd, but none the worse for that.