A Conversation for The h2g2 Doctor Who Group

Loom or born? - The Doctor's origins

Post 1

Geggs

Posted this elsewhere, but got no answers, so I'll try it here instead.

Now that I've finished reading Lungbarrow, I know all about the idea of the Family Looms that were introduced due to the lack of any actual birth on Gallifrey after Pythia went.

So, was the eigth doctor's claim, in the TVM, that his mother was human, ever reconciled to the Looms history? Or is it one great unresolved mess?


Geggs


Loom or born? - The Doctor's origins

Post 2

Jim Lynn

Since the Looms were an invention of the novels, there's no requirement for the TV series to take any notice of them. The books aren't generally regarded as part of the history of the TV show - if they were, then the Doctor has become human twice - once as the seventh and once as the tenth.

And the Eighth Doctor's half-human stuff has never been referenced in the new series, so who knows - it'll be up to the production team if they want to accept that part of it. All we know is that Paul McGann's Doctor is part of the history (as shown in Doctor Smith's Journal of Impossible Things) but it's possible the story itself might be contradicted in the new series. It's not a popular notion - too hollywood in my opinion.

What we've got to accept is that this is a TV show produced by people who are making it up as they go along. If we're lucky, they'll keep the history consistent, but it's always been true that the teams have ignored or contradicted established history if their particular story requires it.


Loom or born? - The Doctor's origins

Post 3

Geggs

Thanks for that Jim!

So it's still something of a mystery, then? That's fine. The Doctor should be full of mysteries. Pining his history down to much would remove much that is great about the character.


Geggs


Loom or born? - The Doctor's origins

Post 4

Mister Matty

"Lungbarrow" is a spinoff novel so doesn't count as part of official continuity (although I've noticed the show rarely contradicts anything that happens in Spinoffs which suggests they like the idea of keeping options open). As for the "half human" Eight Doctor thing, it was brought-in purely because of the curious American obsession with making alien characters "half human". I'm actually surprised the BBC allowed it. It's never been referenced in the new series and probably never will as I gather it's largely regarded as contemptable US-network interference by fans (and remember, the new series is essentially made by fans). I think an adequate explanation is that it's merely a joke about the Doctor's fondness for Earth.


Loom or born? - The Doctor's origins

Post 5

TIMELORD

Just thought i would point out that the last series with Mc Coy did hint at the doctor being half human.
In his last story Survival the Doctor using the Cheetah powers returned to Earth not Gallifrey and it was pointed out they could only return to there home world Even the master looked surprised at seeing him.


Loom or born? - The Doctor's origins

Post 6

Jim Lynn

It's been a while but weren't they returning to Ace's homeworld? And I think it might be stretching things to infer a plot glitch as being a hint of something. That way lies conspiracy theories.


Loom or born? - The Doctor's origins

Post 7

Jozcoz

But his grandaughter was human wasn't she?


Loom or born? - The Doctor's origins

Post 8

Jim Lynn

I'm pretty sure Susan was from the Doctor's planet. Her status as his actual Granddaughter is often questioned by fans but I don't think it has ever been contradicted by the series.


Loom or born? - The Doctor's origins

Post 9

Kerr_Avon - hunting stray apostrophes and gutting poorly parsed sentences

Ace takes the Doctor and all the others back at one point, then newar the end of episode 3 teh Doctor jumps back on his own, during his fight with the Master.

It's said they 'Can only take their prey home'. Home, not 'home world'. Important distinction, because both Ace and the Doctor materialise directly outside the Tardis - I always thought it was meant to indicate that the Tardis was home for both of them. Which ties in with the dialogue at the end:

Doctor: "Where to now Ace?"
Ace "Home."
Doctor "Home?"
Ace: "The Tardis!"
Doctor "Yes, the Tardis."

Gallifrey isn't where the Doctor belongs anymore, in the same way that Perivale isn't where Ace belongs anymore. They both belong with each other in the Tardis. And the poor old Master is the only one who belongs nowhere. He can only jump where Midge takes him.

smiley - ale


Loom or born? - The Doctor's origins

Post 10

Jozcoz

The Doctor describes the smiley - tardis as his "home" in "Blood of the Daleks"


Loom or born? - The Doctor's origins

Post 11

Kerr_Avon - hunting stray apostrophes and gutting poorly parsed sentences

Just remembered: The thing about 'home' rather than 'home world' is backed up by the fact that Midge apparently materialises in his flat.

smiley - ale


Loom or born? - The Doctor's origins

Post 12

Jozcoz

Midge?


Loom or born? - The Doctor's origins

Post 13

Kerr_Avon - hunting stray apostrophes and gutting poorly parsed sentences

Ace's mate. The one that the Master catches and uses to take him to Earth.

smiley - ale


Loom or born? - The Doctor's origins

Post 14

Jozcoz

Sorry, not familiar with retro Dr Who

I am familiar with the first series of Blakes 7 though


Loom or born? - The Doctor's origins

Post 15

TIMELORD

The theory is not mine i was told it was JNT that said they had droped a few hints but was not sure if they would ever use them.I know in Delta and the Bannermen the doctor was talking to himself about half breeds not working out to good Billy and Delta were there when he started but had walked off.
Then again they used a lot of lines that were never fully explaned i remember"The scabbard is worth 10 of the sword said Merlin"Now i know why but it was never explained in the show!


Loom or born? - The Doctor's origins

Post 16

Kerr_Avon - hunting stray apostrophes and gutting poorly parsed sentences

You were just supposed to know that one. Like in The Romans you're supposed to know who Nero was.

smiley - ale


Loom or born? - The Doctor's origins

Post 17

Primeval Mudd (formerly Roymondo)

It was only a week a go that I found out Avon's first name was Kerr. Irrelevant but I felt the need to share.


Loom or born? - The Doctor's origins

Post 18

van-smeiter

(Kerr) Avon
(Roj) Blake
Jenna (Stanis)
Villa (Restal)
(Del) Tarrant

And I should be able to remember Gan's other name but... there seems to be no rhyme or reason for how the characters take their names. Enough of the Blake's 7 interlude smiley - sorrysmiley - ok


Loom or born? - The Doctor's origins

Post 19

Kerr_Avon - hunting stray apostrophes and gutting poorly parsed sentences

(Olag) Gan

(NFN) (NMI) Dayna
(NFN) (NMI) Soolin


Loom or born? - The Doctor's origins

Post 20

Kerr_Avon - hunting stray apostrophes and gutting poorly parsed sentences

Oh, and how they take their name? Females habitually adressed by their first name. Lower grade males also addressed by their first name, upper grade males addressed by last name. Gan Delta but too damn big to be addressed by first name smiley - winkeye

smiley - ale


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