h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

D'OH!!!!! *Hangs head in shame*

No I didn't spot it

That means Torchwood 5 will go out with a humungous bang then, when Jack 'Dies'

Yes, I spotted the Babylon 4 in joke, and read the Radio Times piece (p12 21-27 Oct) confirming that yes, it is the Doctors hand in the jar.

Just wanted to say for anyone online at the moment (in the UK) who hasn't seen Torchwood, or want's to see it again, if you've got digital TV episode 1 & 2 are repeated on BBC3 at 9pm and 10.30pm tonight (with an Eastenders episode in the middle for some bizarre reason).

Anyone want to watch it again and play 'Let's see how many other Sci-Fi/Fantasy shows are referenced'?

BTW i'm sure I read somewhere that the doctor is making an appearance in the last episode of this series. Has anyone else seen that? I'm sure I didn't dream it.

Don't know, but don't *think* the Doc is appearing in the last Torchwood.

Jack is appearing in the last ep of next year's "Who". Perhaps that's what you read?

SoRB

Oh, perhaps that was it. It's annoying me though that I can't remember where I read it.

That was intense, It just gets better and better.
Its so well directed I find myself watching it without looking away from the screen.

Nope, no Doctor in Torchwood. Apparently the rule of thumb is on-going characters that are currently in Doctor Who can't appear in Torchwood, but characters can cross from Torchwood to Doctor Who. Aliens and monsters can of course cross-pollinate as needed.

At 39, John Barrowman's not too young to be a Captain... as for Jack, well, we don't know how old he is, as a Time Agent. We also don't know how long he's been unable to die. He could have been part of Torchwood for centuries, hiding there while his younger self is involved in the events of World War II.

With respect, we know he *could* die before Rose performed her (literal) Deus Ex Machina at the end of series 1 because he was most decidly brown bread.

It is therefore a reasonable assumption that his new found Captain Scarlet type abilities are a result of Rose/The Tardis' interference.

Well yes, but I think what our reversed friend is saying is that in terms of Jack's own timeline, we don't know how long ago for him the events on the Game Station happened. We don't know at what point in history he came through the rift - he could've been there, as he is now, since 1800 and odd. So we could have:

1945 - Jack meets the Doctor, travels with him for a while

A number of months later (within his own time stream) he's killed in

The Year 3 Billion - and resurected.

What we know don't know is when he arrives back on Earth.

Is it 2007 and he's only been immortal for a couple of years, or is it

1800 (or whenever) and he's been in Cardiff for two centuries, but we as viewers have only just met him again.

I hate to say it but I think you are all thinking about this a little too much.

Well duh, we're geeks. That's what we do (tick follows tock, etc. Or in our case, massive dissertation follows throw-away line).

Fair enough. But the series isn't being written with geeks in mind, so the simplest explanation is *likely* to be the one that is being written to.

Lets see now... it's a science fiction spin off and it's being shown late on a Sunday on digital. That sounds like a geek programme to me.

It's being shown prime-time on terrestrial in mid week during the autumn/winter when peiple are in front of their tv's.

Sounds like a mass market programme to me...

Or maybe we won't get an explanation, so non-geeks can either not think about it or assume the obvious, while geeks get a nice big hole to fill with theories and fan fic.

Okay, Blues, I'll go more basic. It's science fiction, therefore it's geeky. The fact that it's regarded as mainstream enough to get a primetime terrestrial slot only shows that sci-fi is in at the moment.

>It's science fiction, therefore it's geeky<

*Exactly* the sort of ghetto thinking that RTD is trying so hard to get away from.

And exactly why Who failed in the nineties, and why most comics these days are crap - geeks writing for geeks.

You might as welkl quote the old cobblers from Kingsley Amis that if it's well written it can't possibly be science fiction while you're at it!

*Sigh*

I didn't mean it like that at all... what I meant was that because it's science fiction two things will happen a) history will remember it as geeky, b) geeks will leap on plot holes and throw-away comments. Science fiction is, at it's core, geeky... no matter how you look at it. Peter Jackson made The Lord of The Rings cool for a couple of years, but it's still geeky. Vin Diesel plays Dungeons and Dragons, but it's still geeky.

The thing is RTD hasn't worked hard to get away from "that sort of ghetto thinking" he's just chucked in some poorly executed human interest stuff that draws in the Eastenders crowd while simultaneously alienating the people who *truly* care about Who.

And actually I'm all for well-written sci-fi thank you so very much.

I'm getting sucked intio a discussion about the relative geekery of Who and LotR.

I suddenly remember why I don't do cons anymore, plan visits to Forbidden Planet like commando raids and don't even bother putting pen to paer on the subject of comics anymore.

I'm outta here before I catch geek.

Look out, it's a relapsing Shark!